Moral obligations for atheists (meaning, believe, Christ, attend)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Tell me how you are not influenced by Western Civilization?
Actually, you asked if our values, as atheists, were influenced by believers. That's a bit different than speaking to the influence of Western Civilization, lol. With all that twisting, you're quite the contortionist behind all your smoke and mirrors.
Thanks for the advice!
I don't mind nitpicking if he makes a decent point.
A decent point would in some way alter the main point you were making. His nitpicks don't. They seem more to serve to denigrate your intellect or awareness of things he holds relevant.
Actually, you asked if our values, as atheists, were influenced by believers. That's a bit different than speaking to the influence of Western Civilization, lol. With all that twisting, you're quite the contortionist behind all your smoke and mirrors.
Are you able to make a point without using
sophistry?
This assumes no differences in human proclivity to argumentation, . I was raised in a very argumentative family. It was almost a sport. My wife is 180 degrees opposite and despises argumentation. People arguing on discussion forums can be presumed to be more the former than the latter which skews any impressions you might make from their interactions.
blaming others and making excuses is what people do instead of taking responsibility for their own behavior.
"that's the way i am" "that's the way people are" "that's the way i was raised" "that's what my family does"
is an example of making excuses and blaming others. instead of a mature adult taking responsibility for their own behavior, including their own thought, speech, action, feelings, and yes how we treat others.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 12-27-2020 at 06:48 PM..
blaming others and making excuses is what people do instead of taking responsibility for their own behavior.
"that's the way i am" "that's the way people are" "that's the way i was raised" "that's what my family does"
is an example of making excuses and blaming others. instead of a mature adult taking responsibility for their own behavior, including their own thought, speech, action, feelings, and yes how we treat others.
Your self-righteousness exceeds anything I have ever encountered in my long life, Tzaph. Your outrageous expectations of people exceed any perfection beyond even what most people think God expects of us. I will ask you what I asked, young Marc, "How on earth did you acquire such a high opinion of yourself (and such a low opinion of others) combined with such high expectations of others"????
Your self-righteousness exceeds anything I have ever encountered in my long life, Tzaph. Your outrageous expectations of people exceed any perfection beyond even what most people think God expects of us. I will ask you what I asked, young Marc, "How on earth did you acquire such a high opinion of yourself (and such a low opinion of others) combined with such high expectations of others"????
Your self-righteousness exceeds anything I have ever encountered in my long life. Your outrageous expectations of people exceed any perfection beyond even what most people think God expects of us. I will ask you what I asked, young Marc, "How on earth did you acquire such a high opinion of yourself (and such a low opinion of others) combined with such high expectations of others"????
there is nothing "self righteous" or "exceeding perfection" about a basic tenet of psychology and healthy relationships. it is not an "outrageous expectation," it is simple maturity, to take responsibility for our own behavior instead of blaming others or making excuses. anyone who has participated in, or is familiar with, any kind of counseling or therapy or recovery work at all recognizes this and acknowledges it. it has nothing to do with a person's theology.
there is nothing "self righteous" or "exceeding perfection" about a basic tenet of psychology and healthy relationships. it is not an "outrageous expectation," it is simple maturity, to take responsibility for our own behavior instead of blaming others or making excuses. anyone who has participated in, or is familiar with, any kind of counseling or therapy or recovery work at all recognizes this and acknowledges it. it has nothing to do with a person's theology.
Wasn't it you that said take it to the psychology forum? Personally, I don't know how we can discuss religion without venturing into psychology and philosophy but it's your rule (I think it might not have been you).
Wasn't it you that said take it to the psychology forum? Personally, I don't know how we can discuss religion without venturing into psychology and philosophy but it's your rule (I think it might not have been you).
i agree that psychology is an element of paths of religion and spirituality.
the post i responded to mentioned "what people think God expects of us." The point i was making was that basic tenets of maturity and healthy development, are not reliant upon a person's theology.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 12-27-2020 at 08:05 PM..
This question is something I've always wondered about. My thoughts on it have changed over time. The question is essentially:
If you believe that religion is morally wrong, do you have an obligation to fight against it?
If you saw a mugging happening in the street and you had the means to help, I would think you should. In the same way, if you see someone teaching information that you know can lead to dangerous behavior, it seems you may be obligated to do something?
The way my personal views on it have changed over time is I used to spend a lot of time arguing against religion, but the more I did, the more I realized that there's not a single target you're arguing against. Everyone has their own personal religion, and very often their beliefs are pretty benign. For example, they may take the Bible as metaphoric or only take seriously the verses they like. The result being I end up spending a lot of time fighting something that seems relatively inconsequential.
I'm curious what all of your takes on this are.
Your argument doesn't follow...seeing illegal activity in front of you is not the same as trying to limit something POTENTIALLY "dangerous". Dangerous is a strong term and I'd say a relatively rare result of religious activity. And many who are religious wouldn't support that dangerous result either. There are other more common consequences due to religion but they are less negative so with less need of interference. All this points to lessened obligation to interfere in general. There are other general evils that we can act against rather than singling out religion.
Anyway, when WOULD you be obligated to interfere? When you see spontaneous religion breakout in the streets? Should I be attending religious services and start arguing with the officiant? I don't see a lot of religious activity because I don't participate in it and I don't seek it out, as an atheist. So, should I? Is that what you think?
Religion isn't all bad - it works well for some people and can be a catalyst for good things...but it isn't necessary - good things happen all the time without religion. So I'm mostly neutral. I wouldn't attack religion just for the sake of it - there would have to be something more generally wrong beyond religion coming into play.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Should I be attending religious services and start arguing with the officiant? I don't see a lot of religious activity because I don't participate in it and I don't seek it out, as an atheist. So, should I? Is that what you think?
