Philosophy and Psychology from Ancient India.

[Travelling fella]

Originally Posted by laysayfair

is there anything you can say that can make us feel better about the plight of the untouchables?

only that India is slowly getting on its feet, her ancestors left a legacy of the most advanced civilization in the world socially, economically, scientifically and spiritually ever known to man, this is being rediscovered by contemporary hindus slowly, and this will eradicate the caste system over time. India will slowly recover her lead on world civilization.

Hindu philosophy sees this world as nothing else but a dream of God, a cosmic motion picture, think of it as if you were having a dream and in the dream your leg gets burnt to ashes, while you are dreaming you will experience the pain of loosing your leg and it will cause you tremendous suffering, but when you wake up and realize that you were only dreaming and that your leg is ok, you then relax and forget about the whole issue, this life is the same.

One day you will wake up and realize that you were dreaming all this time that you were a human being.

This is the reason why there's suffering in this life, many people ask? if God is all good why then he allows suffering, because he knows that nobody is really suffering, and nobody is really dying.

When you realize this truth, and make an instrospection of your life, your mistakes, bad habits, and all the things that attract suffering unto your life, and start working on your karma, accepting God's will no matter what it is, life becomes really simple, and it is then when you start to free yourself from all karma and suffering and start attracting good things to your life.

However, we need to learn to be masters of ourselves, we'll never find perfection, eternal hapiness, love, life in this world, we need to refocus our objectives and start seeking those things within, when we start doing this all our suffering will end.

13. The right use of the will is the steady, effort to stand in spiritual being.
14. This becomes a firm resting-place, when followed long, persistently, with earnestness.
15. Ceasing from self-indulgence is conscious mastery over the thirst for sensuous pleasure here or hereafter.
16. The consummation of this is freedom from thirst for any mode of psychical activity, through the establishment of the spiritual man.

[laysayfair]

Originally Posted by Travelling fella

only that India is slowly getting on its feet, her ancestors left a legacy of the most advanced civilization in the world socially, economically, scientifically and spiritually ever known to man, this is being rediscovered by contemporary hindus slowly, and this will eradicate the caste system over time. India will slowly recover her lead on world civilization.

Hindu philosophy sees this world as nothing else but a dream of God, a cosmic motion picture, think of it as if you were having a dream and in the dream your leg gets burnt to ashes, while you are dreaming you will experience the pain of loosing your leg and it will cause you tremendous suffering, but when you wake up and realize that you were only dreaming and that your leg is ok, you then relax and forget about the whole issue, this life is the same.

One day you will wake up and realize that you were dreaming all this time that you were a human being.

This is the reason why there's suffering in this life, many people ask? if God is all good why then he allows suffering, because he knows that nobody is really suffering, and nobody is really dying.

When you realize this truth, and make an instrospection of your life, your mistakes, bad habits, and all the things that attract suffering unto your life, and start working on your karma, accepting God's will no matter what it is, life becomes really simple, and it is then when you start to free yourself from all karma and suffering and start attracting good things to your life.

However, we need to learn to be masters of ourselves, we'll never find perfection, eternal hapiness, love, life in this world, we need to refocus our objectives and start seeking those things within, when we start doing this all our suffering will end.

13. The right use of the will is the steady, effort to stand in spiritual being.
14. This becomes a firm resting-place, when followed long, persistently, with earnestness.
15. Ceasing from self-indulgence is conscious mastery over the thirst for sensuous pleasure here or hereafter.
16. The consummation of this is freedom from thirst for any mode of psychical activity, through the establishment of the spiritual man.

So they should just suffer and be patient. How about violent revolution to overthrow their oppressors? That would be fair wouldn't it? Maybe, they don't want to live like this another day and don't want their children to live like that for another hour. Always easy to tell the one who's neck your stepping on to just "grin and bear it".

[Travelling fella]

Originally Posted by laysayfair

So they should just suffer and be patient. How about violent revolution to overthrow their oppressors? That would be fair wouldn't it? Maybe, they don't want to live like this another day and don't want their children to live like that for another hour. Always easy to tell the one who's neck your stepping on to just "grin and bear it".

I don't believe violence has solved anything, but non violent resistance just like Gandhi did could be a way. He got with it, and in less time than any other country, and with much less bloodshed

[laysayfair]

Originally Posted by Travelling fella

I don't believe violence has solved anything, but non violent resistance just like Gandhi did could be a way. He got with it, and in less time than any other country, and with much less bloodshed

Gandhi was a Buddhist. We were talking about Hindus.

[Travelling fella]

Originally Posted by laysayfair

Gandhi was a Buddhist. We were talking about Hindus.

Gandhi was an hinduist my friend you can read his biography online here

Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhism sprung from Hinduism, all of them believe in the concept of nonviolence (ahimsa) and nonresistance has a long history in Indian religious thought and has had many revivals in Hindu, Buddhist, Jain, Jewish and Christian contexts. Gandhi explains his philosophy and way of life in his autobiography The Story of My Experiments with Truth. He was quoted as saying:

When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall — think of it, always."

"What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty and democracy?"

"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

"There are many causes that I am prepared to die for but no causes that I am prepared to kill for."

Faith

Gandhi was born a Hindu and practised Hinduism all his life, deriving most of his principles from Hinduism. As a common Hindu, he believed all religions to be equal, and rejected all efforts to convert him to a different faith. He was an avid theologian and read extensively about all major religions. He had the following to say about Hinduism:
"Hinduism as I know it entirely satisfies my soul, fills my whole being...When doubts haunt me, when disappointments stare me in the face, and when I see not one ray of light on the horizon, I turn to the Bhagavad Gita, and find a verse to comfort me; and I immediately begin to smile in the midst of overwhelming sorrow. My life has been full of tragedies and if they have not left any visible and indelible effect on me, I owe it to the teachings of the Bhagavad Gita."

The Bhagavad Gita contains the essence of Yoga and Hinduism in it's verses, but as any other sacred scripture, most spiritual truths are hidden in metaphors and allegories, although it's language it's much more clear than the bible, Patanjali was able to express the wisdom contained in the Bhagavad Gita, in such a clear and concise way that he is considered one of the foremost exponents of Yoga up to these days.

Patanjali Yoga Sutras

Hinduism created 6 phillosophy schools, Mathematics, Psychology and Physics in it's earliest form derived from them, we still use the numerals that were created in india Hindu-Arabic numeral system and it is thanks to them that modern science became possible.

if you read Patanjali's Yoga Sutras you will see how since those early days Hinduism developed a psychology of liberation, total release from suffering, bad habits and karma, much more advanced than our current western psychology.

The 4 more imporant are the following

Nyaya

Vaisheshika

Samkhya

Yoga

This was the reason of the thread, that people who were interested shared their thoughts about Phillosophy and Psychology from ancient India

[laysayfair]

Originally Posted by Travelling fella

Gandhi was an hinduist my friend you can read his biography online here

Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhism sprung from Hinduism, all of them believe in the concept of nonviolence (ahimsa) and nonresistance has a long history in Indian religious thought and has had many revivals in Hindu, Buddhist, Jain, Jewish and Christian contexts. Gandhi explains his philosophy and way of life in his autobiography The Story of My Experiments with Truth. He was quoted as saying:

When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall — think of it, always."

"What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty and democracy?"

"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

"There are many causes that I am prepared to die for but no causes that I am prepared to kill for."

Faith

Gandhi was born a Hindu and practised Hinduism all his life, deriving most of his principles from Hinduism. As a common Hindu, he believed all religions to be equal, and rejected all efforts to convert him to a different faith. He was an avid theologian and read extensively about all major religions. He had the following to say about Hinduism:
"Hinduism as I know it entirely satisfies my soul, fills my whole being...When doubts haunt me, when disappointments stare me in the face, and when I see not one ray of light on the horizon, I turn to the Bhagavad Gita, and find a verse to comfort me; and I immediately begin to smile in the midst of overwhelming sorrow. My life has been full of tragedies and if they have not left any visible and indelible effect on me, I owe it to the teachings of the Bhagavad Gita."

The Bhagavad Gita contains the essence of Yoga and Hinduism in it's verses, but as any other sacred scripture, most spiritual truths are hidden in metaphors and allegories, although it's language it's much more clear than the bible, Patanjali was able to express the wisdom contained in the Bhagavad Gita, in such a clear and concise way that he is considered one of the foremost exponents of Yoga up to these days.

Patanjali Yoga Sutras

Hinduism created 6 phillosophy schools, Mathematics, Psychology and Physics in it's earliest form derived from them, we still use the numerals that were created in india Hindu-Arabic numeral system and it is thanks to them that modern science became possible.

if you read Patanjali's Yoga Sutras you will see how since those early days Hinduism developed a psychology of liberation, total release from suffering, bad habits and karma, much more advanced than our current western psychology.

The 4 more imporant are the following

Nyaya

Vaisheshika

Samkhya

Yoga

This was the reason of the thread, that people who were interested shared their thoughts about Phillosophy and Psychology from ancient India

I stand corrected. However, everything I read says that the Hindu caste system is an essential part of Hinduism. You seemed to imply earlier that this was not so. How do you deal with a religion with racism built into it.

[Travelling fella]

Originally Posted by laysayfair

I stand corrected. However, everything I read says that the Hindu caste system is an essential part of Hinduism. You seemed to imply earlier that this was not so. How do you deal with a religion with racism built into it.

That misinformation is the product of misunderstanding, which i'm very happy to clarify.

It is true that Hindu scriptures speak of states of spiritual development, and that there are 4 of them:

The first degree speaks of people who are still in the earliest stages of development, and aren't interested in spirituality at all, they feel happier pleasing the senses and enjoy jobs that are more physical in nature.

The second degree speaks of people who are starting to develop their spiritual qualities and are beginning their quest for spiritual growth, they are more attracted to jobs like commerce or creative activities such as art.

The third degree speaks of people who've become warriors, this means that they are in the struggle against sense indulgency vs spiritual disciplines and self control.

The forth stage of spiritual growth is of people who've been able to master themselves by repeated samadhi (union with God) fruit of their sadhana (spiritual discipline) to the point they've been able to control their desires, temptations, bad habits, and negative states of consciousness totally and they are permanently or almost permanently dwelling on the spiritual being.

Any person can climb up the evolutionary path from the lowest stage to the highest stage in one life if they do the effort, unfortunately like any civilization in the world, once a peak is reached people start to become arrogant and self complacent, it is then when ignorance slowly raises it's ugly head and civilization starts its decline, this decline lead to the misinterpretation of the scriptures for selfish purposes and a caste system was stablished, which is slowly being dismantled, unfortunately changes aren't as fast as we humans would like, one of the reasons India suffered several invasions from during the centuries 18 to 20 was the karma caused by this caste system.

But like I told you before, people like Gandhi are perfect examples of what Hinduism truly means, since the beginning of Hindu civilization, great souls like him have incarnated and gave an example of the perfect qualities we are supposed to develop by our spiritual effort, no other civilization has had many examples of the true principles of religion in practice.

Regards!

[laysayfair]

Originally Posted by Travelling fella

That misinformation is the product of misunderstanding, which i'm very happy to clarify.

It is true that Hindu scriptures speak of states of spiritual development, and that there are 4 of them:

The first degree speaks of people who are still in the earliest stages of development, and aren't interested in spirituality at all, they feel happier pleasing the senses and enjoy jobs that are more physical in nature.

The second degree speaks of people who are starting to develop their spiritual qualities and are beginning their quest for spiritual growth, they are more attracted to jobs like commerce or creative activities such as art.

The third degree speaks of people who've become warriors, this means that they are in the struggle against sense indulgency vs spiritual disciplines and self control.

The forth stage of spiritual growth is of people who've been able to master themselves by repeated samadhi (union with God) fruit of their sadhana (spiritual discipline) to the point they've been able to control their desires, temptations, bad habits, and negative states of consciousness totally and they are permanently or almost permanently dwelling on the spiritual being.

Any person can climb up the evolutionary path from the lowest stage to the highest stage in one life if they do the effort, unfortunately like any civilization in the world, once a peak is reached people start to become arrogant and self complacent, it is then when ignorance slowly raises it's ugly head and civilization starts its decline, this decline lead to the misinterpretation of the scriptures for selfish purposes and a caste system was stablished, which is slowly being dismantled, unfortunately changes aren't as fast as we humans would like, one of the reasons India suffered several invasions from during the centuries 18 to 20 was the karma caused by this caste system.

But like I told you before, people like Gandhi are perfect examples of what Hinduism truly means, since the beginning of Hindu civilization, great souls like him have incarnated and gave an example of the perfect qualities we are supposed to develop by our spiritual effort, no other civilization has had many examples of the true principles of religion in practice.

Regards!

Discussing Hinduism is just like discussing Christianity. It's watching people try to defend the indefensible. You're saying it's the untouchables fault that they are where they are today because of "karma" from some other life. That's all I needed to know. I got the picture. Thanks, no need to discuss anymore. Take good care.

[Travelling fella]

You too, see ya around