Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I am so glad that someone started a thread on this topic....it has been on my mind for a long time.
As an event planner, one of my biggest challenges is getting clients and event attendees to and from event venues and the airport, in a time effective and convenient manner. This has been especially challenging when I have had events at the Cobb Energy Centre and the Cobb Galleria Convention Center. I don't know how many times I have had out of town (and some intown) attendees and clients ask me why the MARTA train line does not extend to the Convention Center, Windy Hill or Cumberland Mall.
In addition, it would also be great if the train line extended westward to the area where White Provision is located, because there are so many great restaurants and stores out there that would be really cool for out of town attendees and guests to visit. If the train service extended out there, I would definitely put together a "Westside" city tour in an effort to try and attract conventions and companies back to our city to do business.
Just some of my thoughts...thanks again for starting this thread.
After a brutal year of getting smaller, MARTA is starting to think big. New rail lines, bus lanes on highways, and new train and bus stations are among the things MARTA’s board want from a 2012 transportation referendum. That summer, metro Atlanta voters will go to the polls to consider a list of transportation projects that would be funded from a 1 percent sales tax to run 10 years
I like the idea of the Lindbergh Station to Emory University line they are talking about. I guess you'd just follow the Norfolk-Southern line to Armour Yard, maybe add a station there, and then follow the CSX line over to Emory. Connect everything into the Beltline, too.
The projects that make the most sense are the Lindbergh to Emory line and extending the Gold line to the Gwinnett County border. I think Gwinnett should scrap the light rail line and fight for a heavy rail extension of MARTA. It just makes more sense for them and it would be seamless (wouldn't have to switch from light rail to MARTA). I can see why Cobb wants to go with light rail because none of MARTA's existing lines are near the Cobb border, so something completely new makes sense. And why this isn't even being considered is beyond me:
Right before 285, build a new line that breaks off the Gold line route and follows 285 to the Perimeter where it reconnects with the Red line at Sandy Springs station. This would allow people to commute from suburb to suburb without having to go through Downtown.
Traffic on I-20 ITP is pretty light and I don't see the point in spending $1 billion to build a mass transit line down the middle, so that's a waste. I'd rather see them reallocate that money to my idea above which makes SENSE.
Finally, I'm disappointed there isn't a North line extension to Roswell/Alpharetta. I'd also like to see station upgrades/renovations (certain stations are very ugly and uninviting and could use a fresh new look).
What's interesting is how many of these seem to be just pulled out of a hat. I've seen no studies of extending the line from Doraville. The 285/20 line was actually rejected in their study. They chose bus rapid transit instead. And that study is several years old and based on growth projections that are doubtful now. The Emory line is very early in the study stages. Only the MLK extension is something they have done much study on and were pursuing.
On the Emory line, they rejected for political reasons (NIMBY) doing their 1st thought of a green line extension from East Lake through Emory up to Lindberg. So they are considering a stub to Emory and some kind of disconnected bus or light rail to connect to Avondale. If they connected Emory to Avondale it would either require a mile or so of subway or a comparable length demolition of mostly SF residential.
I don't know about the political feasibility, but from a transit standpoint, turning the green line into a loop going from Bankside to Cumberland Mall and then along 285 to Perimeter Mall or Doraville, down to Lindberg and then to Emory and Eastlake would seem to make a lot of sense, connecting a lot of people and a lot of destinations without requiring transfers.
Interesting article. It's funny to see MARTA's ideas, which sort of fall into line with the format I was trying to encourage in this thread.
My reaction to their proposals:
Quote:
A new rail line from Lindbergh Station to Emory University. Cost: $685 million
I approve, but with some reservations. The freight railroad corridor seems really tight and hemmed in with development. And it's not something the railroad is going to give up: this is CSX's main drag from Atlanta to New York, and they are presently spending billions upgrading it in VA/DC to allow for higher clearances. It's probably the most important long-term project the railroad has going on right now.
Currently, it's single track. Most of the time, they want all of their track to be upgradeable to double track in the future, or allow for sidings. So I think they have major ROW issues despite being on a rail line.
To solve all of these problems, I would estimate a big amount of money is going to be needed. They have budgeted $200m/mile which is a good bit, but it's a lot for a relatively short line to Emory which I think might be accessed by another form of transit more feasibly.
Not a bad idea, but I have some concerns.
Quote:
An extension of the gold line train from the Doraville Station outside I-285 to Oakcliff Road and New Peachtree Road, nearly to the border with Gwinnett County. Cost: $145 million
Don't really see the big point here. It's a roughly 1.5 mile extension, and it doesn't seem like it will have that much better access to I-85 than the status quo (although it will allow commuters to avoid Spaghetti Junction).
Quote:
An extension of the blue line from Hamilton E. Holmes Station to a new station near I-285 and Martin Luther King, Jr. Drive. Cost: $582 million
Seems like a lot of money for a one-stop, 2 mile extension that just gets MARTA out to the perimeter. But it would help with access a good deal for commuters.
Quote:
An extension of the blue line from Indian Creek Station along I-285 to Wesley Chapel Road and I-20. Cost: $522 million
This one is really a head-scratcher. This is a 6-mile extension along the interstate, so going below $100MM a mile seems pretty aggressive. This wouldn't be hugely convenient for commuters from I-20, since the track would have to go north 5 miles before finally turning west towards downtown. Ultimately, by the time you've made it to Wesley Chapel you might as well just keep driving to downtown or where ever.
I still think my Stone Mountain extension idea in the OP is a better concept; it radiates outwards in a more direct fashion, serves relatively dense areas in Clarkston improves access to a park/tourist attraction, and could actually be a more convenient access to downtown than driving for a major development corridor (US 78, which faces either a circuitous route on 85 or 20, or fighting stop light after stop light on Ponce). This also gives intown people another destination that MARTA can actually take them to; since parking isn't free at Stone Mt, people would have extra incentive to ride. Presumably few people from intown would take MARTA to Wesley Chapel Road.
And I have a sneaking suspicion the Stone Mountain line is more feasible despite being a couple miles longer: that CSX railroad ROW typically has roads on each side of it, and usually has 100-200 feet of clear space between the two roads. That clear width allows you to follow a basic plan that looks something like this (on MARTA's existing south line):
The main issue would be grade separation; you'd have to close some of the existing crossings and separate a lot of them (the community would have mixed feelings about this; people would be mad where crossings get closed, but would like it where existing at-grade crossings with the railroad are made grade separated, since the train's horn would get blown a lot less at night). But building along train lines, especially wide ones, is a sound method: after all, it's how the lion's share of the existing MARTA system was constructed.
Contrast this with building along an interstate, where you need to actually widen the ROW, which is ridiculously painful and expensive when you are dealing with an existing freeway.
Moving on...
Quote:
Construction of a mass transit lane, bus or rail, along eastern I-20 from central Atlanta to Candler Road. Cost: $1 billion
This one makes even less sense, to be blunt. A billion dollars for a brand new transit line to a location that isn't particularly urban or special and is only four miles from an existing station? That just doesn't make any sense at all. I can think of easily a dozen ideas that make more sense to me; many suggestions in this thread are far better imo.
The projects that make the most sense are the Lindbergh to Emory line and extending the Gold line to the Gwinnett County border. I think Gwinnett should scrap the light rail line and fight for a heavy rail extension of MARTA. It just makes more sense for them and it would be seamless (wouldn't have to switch from light rail to MARTA). I can see why Cobb wants to go with light rail because none of MARTA's existing lines are near the Cobb border, so something completely new makes sense. And why this isn't even being considered is beyond me:
Right before 285, build a new line that breaks off the Gold line route and follows 285 to the Perimeter where it reconnects with the Red line at Sandy Springs station. This would allow people to commute from suburb to suburb without having to go through Downtown.
Traffic on I-20 ITP is pretty light and I don't see the point in spending $1 billion to build a mass transit line down the middle, so that's a waste. I'd rather see them reallocate that money to my idea above which makes SENSE.
Finally, I'm disappointed there isn't a North line extension to Roswell/Alpharetta. I'd also like to see station upgrades/renovations (certain stations are very ugly and uninviting and could use a fresh new look).
Some of this is kind of in the long term vision of concept 3 and the reason why gwinnett is more likely to become LRT. The idea is the cost feasibility of building the Alpharetta branch, Gwinnett branch, and a connecting link is more likely to happen if they are all LRT rather than all HRT. One way or another though between a Gwinnett -> perimeter and a Gwinnett -> intown... one way will require a transfer and one way can go straight through
Long-run.. a gwinnett line would intersect with the NE line, but could feasibly keep running towards perimeter without a need of a time consuming transfer. It is also one reason why the NE line needs to be extended. An extension to Oakcliff is very short, but will shorten (and make cheaper) any future LRT route between Gwinnett and perimeter/Alpharetta. I would like to see it go 1 mile further to Jones Mill Rd, but this small extension will still make a world of difference.
Also keep in mind... this is MARTA's wish list... it doesn't include input from Gwinnett county's wish list or Fulton County's wishlist.
I do want to rant against something right quick....
MARTA's wish list is big and expensive. It is clearly not all going to happen. I am really irked they have staked the cards on the I-20 corridor so much. They threw in an east line extension to I-20 and Wesley chapel and a new line from downtown to Candler on I-20 which is just short of the terminus of the other......and neither line will make it all the way out to Stonecrest......
For crying out loud.... pick the one that is more important/best for the I-20 corridor and stick with it. It would be more likely to be successful and more likely to pick a technology that can make it out to Lithonia and cover the whole corridor. All of their existing studies are focused on an upgraded dedicated BRT route to Stonecrest that can be converted to LRT as demand picks up. Why is this not on there and on there alone? It would stand a much higher chance of getting funded.
They really are asking for too much, venturing away from Concept 3 in certain, expensive ways and I'm afraid shooting themselves in the foot in the process.
Also keep in mind... this is MARTA's wish list... it doesn't include input from Gwinnett county's wish list or Fulton County's wishlist.
I do want to rant against something right quick....
MARTA's wish list is big and expensive. It is clearly not all going to happen. I am really irked they have staked the cards on the I-20 corridor so much. They threw in an east line extension to I-20 and Wesley chapel and a new line from downtown to Candler on I-20 which is just short of the terminus of the other......and neither line will make it all the way out to Stonecrest......
For crying out loud.... pick the one that is more important/best for the I-20 corridor and stick with it. It would be more likely to be successful and more likely to pick a technology that can make it out to Lithonia and cover the whole corridor. All of their existing studies are focused on an upgraded dedicated BRT route to Stonecrest that can be converted to LRT as demand picks up. Why is this not on there and on there alone? It would stand a much higher chance of getting funded.
They really are asking for too much, venturing away from Concept 3 in certain, expensive ways and I'm afraid shooting themselves in the foot in the process.
I agree with this wholeheartedly. Honestly, the fact that this is the best thing MARTA could come up with for its wish list is a bit frightening.
I'm only involved in the transit network as a passenger and don't have thorough technical knowledge of it. I would expect their wish list to capitalize on some opportunities that hadn't occurred to me or that seemed somewhat insightful. This list includes three obvious extensions that have been discussed widely, and two ones I am just hearing about for the first time that seem extremely fanciful and of dubious value. And yeah, they both benefit the same one out of seven major inbound corridors into the city.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
New rail lines among proposed MARTA projects
