Kirkwood Neighbors versus Night Club (Atlanta, Jackson: apartments, middle school, DMV)

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by ATL_II_DMV

I couldn't care less about the problems residents of gentrified neighborhoods.

You took the risk b/c you wanted to take back the city and have a property in a prime location, you deal with with comes along with that move.

You want total peace and quiet, move back to the suburbs.

It boggles the mind that people who don't live in intown neighborhoods and who haven't stuck their necks out financially and busted their butts to bring declining parts of the city back to life are so quick to marginalize those who have.

Who do y'all figure pays the taxes to keep the city rolling, its parks and cultural amenities, its firemen and police officers, the 50,000 people living in AHA housing? Who pays for the thousands of school teachers and the hundreds of school administrators dragging down over $150,000 and the $1 billion in new physical plant? Who pays for the streets and MARTA and the light bill down at City Hall? The overhaul of the sewer system, the Beltline and the Streetcar?

And those who don't live intown are going to tell the people who do, "Now that you have your neighborhood fixed up we are going to come party there whether you like it or not, so just get used to it."

What a truly bizarre sense of entitlement.

[ATL_II_DMV]

Cut the BS, the residents that chose to take risks and gentrify certain areas don't give a crap about putting $ into city schools.

That money isn't even going to the schools they are zoned in (such as Maynard Jackson, McNair, etc ).

The $ is going towards charter schools that the residents of East Atlanta, Kirkwood, Summerhill, etc have been moving to.

The idea was to drive the low income residents out to the suburbs and move back in they will have proximity to downtown Atl. Just like in every other major city in America.

Don't act like most gentrificationers give a crap about anything other than their own situation

[soulcontroller]

Originally Posted by ATL_II_DMV

Cut the BS, the residents that chose to take risks and gentrify certain areas don't give a crap about putting $ into city schools.

That money isn't even going to the schools they are zoned in (such as Maynard Jackson, McNair, etc ).

The $ is going towards charter schools that the residents of East Atlanta, Kirkwood, Summerhill, etc have been moving to.

The idea was to drive the low income residents out to the suburbs and move back in they will have proximity to downtown Atl. Just like in every other major city in America.

Don't act like most gentrificationers give a crap about anything other than their own situation

point duly noted.

[aries4118]

Originally Posted by ATL_II_DMV

Cut the BS, the residents that chose to take risks and gentrify certain areas don't give a crap about putting $ into city schools.

That money isn't even going to the schools they are zoned in (such as Maynard Jackson, McNair, etc ).

The $ is going towards charter schools that the residents of East Atlanta, Kirkwood, Summerhill, etc have been moving to.

The idea was to drive the low income residents out to the suburbs and move back in they will have proximity to downtown Atl. Just like in every other major city in America.

Don't act like most gentrificationers give a crap about anything other than their own situation

[NYbyWAYofGA]

QUOTE=jsimms3;20698185]Anyone who has been to these cities knows that:

a) The best bar and club districts aren't the heaviest residential areas, though they may be a few blocks away

In a lot of cities, bars and clubs are not just clustered in districts, they are also sprinkled throughout the urban fabric. My neighborhood has a pub or club on the corner of many blocks. They are small and very convenient gathering places for people to socialize, dance and drink. Its' not a big deal.

b) People who live 15 floors up a block or two away aren't likely to experience problems like people who live IN the same small 3 floor development as the club, or a single family home on the same block.

A lot of the bars and clubs in my neighborhood are on the ground floor of mixed use, residential buildings.

c) This bar is attracting a pretty dangerous and rowdy element. It goes beyond simple noise.

What leads you to believe that the patrons are "dangerous and rowdy?" Please explain.

Remember this is not a high-rise neighborhood or warehouse district. This is a single family home neighborhood with a few medium sized buildings to support uses such as neighborhood PUB, coffee shop, breakfast place, restaurant, and services.

Once again, there are many pubs, bars and clubs in my neighborhood...which happens to have many single family homes, as well.

If this were in the middle of Midtown, people might still complain.

Yes, exactly...I guess in a lot of ways, Atlanta still has a small town mentality when it comes to certain things.

When I have partied in NYC or Chicago, or especially DC, the crowd does not need a pat down for weapons and aside from drunk idiots making fools of themselves, there is no thought that people are packing and ready to use.

I don't know which places you've been to, but a lot places in those cities that you mentioned have door people that will pat you down before entering. I find it funny that you used cities like New York, Chicago and DC as examples of patron behavior. The clubbers in any of those cities are just as crazy and rowdy, if not moreso, than in Atlanta.

Not only that, the bars/clubs I have been to are in designated areas with tons of other bars/clubs, not next to houses. Not only that, even with the commotion you can't hear what is playing inside from the outside.

Once again, clubs, bars and pubs in many cities are not necessarily clustered in designated areas. Many cities, such as New York, Chicago and DC also have them scattered throughout neighborhoods. Some are even in single family neighborhoods.

[NYbyWAYofGA]

For one, Kirkwood is not "in the middle" of the City. It is actually an eastern extension of the city not even located in Fulton County - Kirkwood was actually its own town before it was incorporated by Atlanta in the early part of last century.

When I said that Kirkwood is in the middle of the city, I didn't mean in a literal sense. I said that because it is in the perimeter.

Second, residents didn't move in AFTER the nightclub. The nightclub came after the residents (and because of the residents), and furthermore, it established its location under false pretenses.

Seems fair to me. Some residents feel pushed out, but it is usually an issue of nostalgia for the good ol' days - none of us get to keep the past in a perfect mason jar. Especially in cities, things change.

Well, you said in your own words that "especially in cities, things change." So, those residents should expect change living in a hood already in transition....dunno, makes sense to me.

Third, the cities you mention deal with the same issues that we have here. Its about zoning and locating businesses appropriately. In most cases, a nightclub works when its near a residential area only when the residential area is very dense and the buildings are desinged for that kind of operation. In Kirkwood, none of this is the case.

Like I said in a previous post, there are many clubs, bars and pubs in my neighborhood and it's not mega dense. In fact, my area has many single family homes.

I am always a little amazed by the misinformed posts in these forums... sorry to pick on you NY, but there are some holes in your argument.

No offense taken, Cwlawrence. I'm speaking from my own firsthand experience, so I'm not misinformed. I've also traveled overseas and have seen many examples of neighborhood clubs and bars.

[aries4118]

Originally Posted by NYbyWAYofGA

When I said that Kirkwood is in the middle of the city, I didn't mean in a literal sense. I said that because it is in the perimeter.





Well, you said in your own words that "especially in cities, things change." So, those residents should expect change living in a hood already in transition....dunno, makes sense to me.




Like I said in a previous post, there are many clubs, bars and pubs in my neighborhood and it's not mega dense. In fact, my area has many single family homes.



No offense taken, Cwlawrence. I'm speaking from my own firsthand experience, so I'm not misinformed. I've also traveled overseas and have seen many examples of neighborhood clubs and bars.

Good points and good posts, NYbyWAYofGA.

[AcidSnake]

You and cwlawrence so far got my vote.

There has to be a way for the nightclubs and for the neighborhoods to co-exist without the one interrupting the quality of experience & life of the other. Otherwise, the haranging will simply continue.

Originally Posted by jsimms3

Anyone who has been to these cities knows that:

a) The best bar and club districts aren't the heaviest residential areas, though they may be a few blocks away

b) People who live 15 floors up a block or two away aren't likely to experience problems like people who live IN the same small 3 floor development as the club, or a single family home on the same block

c) This bar is attracting a pretty dangerous and rowdy element. It goes beyond simple noise.

Remember this is not a high-rise neighborhood or warehouse district. This is a single family home neighborhood with a few medium sized buildings to support uses such as neighborhood PUB, coffee shop, breakfast place, restaurant, and services.

If this were in the middle of Midtown, people might still complain. It comes down to the same element that came for Spring on the Green, and we all know that they sure increased crime and the perception of danger for all residents of all colors in Midtown. When I have partied in NYC or Chicago, or especially DC, the crowd does not need a pat down for weapons and aside from drunk idiots making fools of themselves, there is no thought that people are packing and ready to use. Not only that, the bars/clubs I have been to are in designated areas with tons of other bars/clubs, not next to houses. Not only that, even with the commotion you can't hear what is playing inside from the outside.

[AnsleyPark]

Originally Posted by arjay57

It boggles the mind that people who don't live in intown neighborhoods and who haven't stuck their necks out financially and busted their butts to bring declining parts of the city back to life are so quick to marginalize those who have.

Who do y'all figure pays the taxes to keep the city rolling, its parks and cultural amenities, its firemen and police officers, the 50,000 people living in AHA housing? Who pays for the thousands of school teachers and the hundreds of school administrators dragging down over $150,000 and the $1 billion in new physical plant? Who pays for the streets and MARTA and the light bill down at City Hall? The overhaul of the sewer system, the Beltline and the Streetcar?

And those who don't live intown are going to tell the people who do, "Now that you have your neighborhood fixed up we are going to come party there whether you like it or not, so just get used to it."

What a truly bizarre sense of entitlement.

No kidding. It is that type of mentality that is holding this city back, impeding its progress and, quite frankly, leading to societal dysfunction. It is disheartening, at best, to realize that some of our citizens really believe this.

[AnsleyPark]

Originally Posted by ATL_II_DMV

Cut the BS, the residents that chose to take risks and gentrify certain areas don't give a crap about putting $ into city schools.

That money isn't even going to the schools they are zoned in (such as Maynard Jackson, McNair, etc ).

The $ is going towards charter schools that the residents of East Atlanta, Kirkwood, Summerhill, etc have been moving to.

The idea was to drive the low income residents out to the suburbs and move back in they will have proximity to downtown Atl. Just like in every other major city in America.

Don't act like most gentrificationers give a crap about anything other than their own situation

Really? How do you believe this?