Group Wants Atlanta-Savannah Passenger Rail Line (Nashville, Jackson: airports, move, train)

[samiwas1]

Originally Posted by MathmanMathman

If it gets to that point, we'll probably be able to address it then. But we've been predicting the demise of personal transportation for a long time now. It'll probably go electric and hybrid. And even if so, by then CSX and Norfolk Southern will probably pick up on the newly lucrative passenger market and things will work out anyway.

I know that you are very anti-anything-but-car transit, and that you are obviously a rabid free-market apologist, but this kind of thinking is what's holding back progress.

One thing is a fact: the population will keep growing. There will be a point where roads are simply not going to cut it. The time to start fixing that issue is not after it happens, it's BEFORE it happens. Building rail lines takes years of planning and even more years of construction. If you wait until your entire area is gridlocked, then you are only solving a problem after it has already happened. Why not do a little preventative maintenance?

Yes, I understand that "the great and powerful free market has spoken!" Let's not pretend for a second that there aren't a lot of very influential people doing anything they can to keep people in their cars, because that's where their money is.

Let me ask you plain and simple: What would you do right now to alleviate future traffic issues related to an expanding population? Certainly there's something other than "build more roads".

[JPD]

It's amazing to me how few people are willing top pay for infrastructure, and seem to think that everything is just going to be rosy if we sit back and do nothing.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by MathmanMathman

Well, if there is a market, even if it is nostalgic, it can return. It's just that I've heard talk about the "Brain Train" and Macon commuter line for so long and nothing happens. I'm guessing that costs are too high. Even Amtrak with its federal subsidies is still an expensive way to travel.

It's more than nostalgia.

For one thing, Atlanta has several million more people than it did when the Savannah line was closed. Savannah has grown too and will hopefully become a major port center closely linked to the Atlanta economy.

In my opinion air travel has lost some of its luster too. To fly to and from Savannah you have to deal with Atlanta's gigantic airport and the security issues. And the cost is not negligible. Auto travel is also expensive and traffic can sometimes be unpredictable.

Of course air and auto travel are massively subsidized by the government so that helps.

But I agree with you that the market should decide. The only point I'd make is that passenger rail isn't allowed to compete on a level playing field with cars and air travel.

[robertpolyglot]

Originally Posted by MathmanMathman

If Amtrak thought the route profitable, they'd have done it by now. I don't understand all this talk about rail service to small cities.

So people can get to Paula Deen's restaurant without a long-haul in their cars? J/K. I agree with you.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by MathmanMathman

Why bother? Delta can fly you there in about an hour.

If Amtrak thought the route profitable, they'd have done it by now.

I'm not sure it's that simple.

[MathmanMathman]

Originally Posted by JPD

It's amazing to me how few people are willing top pay for infrastructure, and seem to think that everything is just going to be rosy if we sit back and do nothing.

It's not an issue of doing nothing. It's doing something that doesn't need to be done. If it is time for inter-city rail to return, it will happen. The tracks are laid, RoW is there, we even have railroad companies in place. They will pick up on passenger rail if the market is right for it.

[MathmanMathman]

Originally Posted by arjay57

I'm not sure it's that simple.

Eh...let's use Occum's Razor on this one.

[MathmanMathman]

Originally Posted by arjay57

It's more than nostalgia.

For one thing, Atlanta has several million more people than it did when the Savannah line was closed. Savannah has grown too and will hopefully become a major port center closely linked to the Atlanta economy.

In my opinion air travel has lost some of its luster too. To fly to and from Savannah you have to deal with Atlanta's gigantic airport and the security issues. And the cost is not negligible. Auto travel is also expensive and traffic can sometimes be unpredictable.

Of course air and auto travel are massively subsidized by the government so that helps.

But I agree with you that the market should decide. The only point I'd make is that passenger rail isn't allowed to compete on a level playing field with cars and air travel.

Well, Amtrak is massively subsidized too and they don't go directly to Savannah from Atlanta. If there is enough traffic between Savannah and Atlanta, Amtrak will pick up on it. They are desperate for profitable routes.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by MathmanMathman

Eh...let's use Occum's Razor on this one.

Well, the principle of Occam's Razor is that "other things being equal..."

That's hardly the situation when it comes to comparing passenger rail with air and automobile travel.

[MathmanMathman]

Originally Posted by samiwas1

I know that you are very anti-anything-but-car transit, and that you are obviously a rabid free-market apologist, but this kind of thinking is what's holding back progress.

What progress will a passenger rail line to Savannah bring that we don't already have?

One thing is a fact: the population will keep growing. There will be a point where roads are simply not going to cut it. The time to start fixing that issue is not after it happens, it's BEFORE it happens. Building rail lines takes years of planning and even more years of construction. If you wait until your entire area is gridlocked, then you are only solving a problem after it has already happened. Why not do a little preventative maintenance?

Is there a terrible problem with congested highways and airspace between Atlanta and Savannah? There are already rail lines to Savannah we can use if there is a market for it.

Yes, I understand that "the great and powerful free market has spoken!" Let's not pretend for a second that there aren't a lot of very influential people doing anything they can to keep people in their cars, because that's where their money is.

There probably is a railroad lobby too.

Let me ask you plain and simple: What would you do right now to alleviate future traffic issues related to an expanding population? Certainly there's something other than "build more roads".

First I have to know if there is a problem of getting to Savannah and back, and secondly are there a lot of people needing to do this and the infrastructure is at overcapacity.