Georgia Senate plans to reduce or cut out income tax (Atlanta: 2013, insurance)

[tikigod311]

Originally Posted by AnsleyPark

Alright folks - the state has to have a revenue source....

I'm not quite understanding some recent moves by the state. The eliminate of the ad valorem tax seems like it may cut down on tax revenue. Maybe I am not understanding it. Now this? I love lower taxes, but I want to have a "progressive" state.

But, look at Texas, Tennessee, and Florida. They seem to be doing well, if not great. Don't know how to feel about this yet.

[K-SawDude]

Originally Posted by arjay57

I don't.

But consider this sitaution. You've got two able bodied men. One of them gets up every day and busts his tail to make a living and support his family and community. He doesn't get any checks from the government.

The other one lays around smoking dope and drinking and having babies he doesn't support while drawing a check paid out of public funds.

The one who works gets docked for a tidy portion of the fruits of his labor. However, he keeps on chugging because he knows that if he doesn't work he and his family and his whole community suffer.

The guy who doesn't work isn't paying in a dime yet he knows his check(s) will be there every month. Maybe his family which he is not taking care of gets checks, too.

My question is which behaviors are we incentivizing and which ones are we punishing?

In this particular point-to-point comparison, I agree. But you could also use your examples to justify things like the Earned Income Credit, which would reward the lower income guy going to work, but not the lazy pot-smoking dude. That's definitely following an "incentive" model (one which was supported by conservative anti-tax types a couple of decades ago, btw.)

But there are plenty of working folks, including single parents, who get government assistance because their 40+ hour/week minimum wage jobs can't even meet basic needs (food, shelter, clothing). At that level, it's really less about "incentives" and more about the fact that our economy is so lop-sided for the very wealthy these days. Wages at the low end keep stagnating, while wages at the very top are skyrocketing. I'm personally not too concerned about thinking of taxes as "punishing" or de-incentivizing folks whose salaries are already sky high and getting higher. I AM worried about how low wages and sales taxes are going to be a much bigger hit for those with lower incomes.

For me, taxes spent well aren't a punishment. They're reflective of our duty as citizens to a common good, and to projects that companies can't really make significant profits off of (roads, bridges, sidewalks, public safety, public schools, some transit, and clean air and water). [These are also areas that we shouldn't *trust* any one company to take charge of, as they could monopolize, drive up prices, pollute, or terrorize the public if the leadership was corrupt. At least government officials are mostly held accountable by periodic voting.]

[OneTrickNet]

I love how people think that by being unemployed you're automatically a leech. A google search just showed me some data that 47% of the impoverished 18-26 year olds have actually been to college. I don't know about anyone else, but I don't know too many folks who have been to college then say, "You know? This making something of myself just isn't for me. I'm going to quit and live on food stamps."

It just amazes me how people can operate with such blinders on and blatent ignorance. I'd venture to say the vast majority of folks who are on some sort of subsidized care would love to be working to save themselves the embarrassment of waiting in a social security line or using a foot stamp card at Kroger.

But that's ok, you just continue living in your bubble and think about how hard YOU work. Because everything is about YOU.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by K-SawDude

For me, taxes spent well aren't a punishment.

Agreed. But are they in fact well spent? We waste billions on utterly stupid things.

http://www.coburn.senate.gov/public/...5-8522c7e1a40e

I would also strongly encourage closing the lazy bum loophole. For someone who's knocking themselves out to make ends meet, that is salt in the wound.

[Ant131531]

Originally Posted by arjay57

I don't.

But consider this sitaution. You've got two able bodied men. One of them gets up every day and busts his tail to make a living and support his family and community. He doesn't get any checks from the government.

The other one lays around smoking dope and drinking and having babies he doesn't support while drawing a check paid out of public funds.

The one who works gets docked for a tidy portion of the fruits of his labor. However, he keeps on chugging because he knows that if he doesn't work he and his family and his whole community suffer.

The guy who doesn't work isn't paying in a dime yet he knows his check(s) will be there every month. Maybe his family which he is not taking care of gets checks, too.

My question is which behaviors are we incentivizing and which ones are we punishing?

People make it seem like the check that these 'lazy bums' are getting is the same amount that the person working his ass off is earning.

The people who generally put in a lot of effort at a young age generally continue that through their life. People who worked hard in school generally gets a good education and thus a good job making good money. The person who is lazy and expects everything to be handed to them will not be getting the same money that person who worked hard in life is earning. A 600 dollar check every month is a check that you can't even live off of. I'd rather work my ass off making 5-10k a month from getting a good education then getting a check for 600 dollars and doing nothing with my life. I don't know about you, but it seems having the bigger check is logically more 'incentivizing'. It's hilarious how much people exaggerate this.

People make it seems like those getting welfare checks and food stamps are getting the same amount of money a professional is earning. It's absurd to even think this. Most people who are getting welfare checks and food stamps actually need it and the majority of them work...even though these jobs are low skilled, low pay jobs.

How about having a little empathy and think about all of those people who work dead end jobs, sometimes even two, and still struggle to support their family. They probably made mistakes earlier in life, but they are still working their asses off regardless. There are a lot of them alone in the Atlanta metro area.

[Ant131531]

Someone has to work those low pay jobs. If everyone had a higher education, then your job that you are skilled for would become extremely competitive and the demand for labor would decrease and YOU ,yourself might be out of a job receiving that welfare check.

[erick295]

I know a lot of conservatives who hold the belief that welfare is the key to an easy life. Curiously, none of them have chosen to receive it. I guess they must be masochists.

[toll_booth]

Originally Posted by BobKovacs

OK...so if we eliminate income tax (or sales tax, for that matter), what spending are we going to cut to make up for the loss of revenue? That's the part no one ever seems to consider when they start talking about cutting taxes.

This. Herman Cain found out the hard way that inventing numbers just doesn't work.

I really don't understand the attitude against the middle class and the working poor. CEOs make over 400x more than their average employee. Can you really say that someone works as much in one hour as another full-time employee does in a MONTH?

Guys, this isn't class warfare. It's arithmetic. There was a good reason why former governor Perdue (or was it Deal?) vetoed that joke of a tax reform the last time our Dear Legislature tried to hit us with it.

[erick295]

Originally Posted by toll_booth

I really don't understand the attitude against the middle class and the working poor. CEOs make over 400x more than their average employee. Can you really say that someone works as much in one hour as another full-time employee does in a MONTH?

Compensation for work has never been, and never will be, related to effort. It's a free market bid for a particular person's skill set.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by Ant131531

How about having a little empathy and think about all of those people who work dead end jobs, sometimes even two, and still struggle to support their family. They probably made mistakes earlier in life, but they are still working their asses off regardless. There are a lot of them alone in the Atlanta metro area.

I have a lot of empathy for those folks. I grew up poor myself and was the first person in my family to get an education beyond high school.

However those aren't the people I'm referring to. I'm talking about the able bodied lazy bums who simply can't be troubled to work or support their families. They shouldn't get one dime of taxpayer money in my opinion.