"Most NFL stadiums are in the suburbs." (Atlanta: hotel, transferring to)

[MattCW]

Originally Posted by gtcorndog

This proves nothing.

Perhaps they take MARTA because of the lack of parking and tailgating options. If given a reasonably affordable opportunity to tailgate at a location with good highway access, do you think they might consider driving? Hmmm...

No because how many people tailgate out of the total going to the game? Plus, most people just want to avoid the traffic mess so take the alternative.

[gtcorndog]

Originally Posted by MattCW

No because how many people tailgate out of the total going to the game? Plus, most people just want to avoid the traffic mess so take the alternative.

Again, you are falling back into that same flawed logic as others did previously.

How many tailgate currently? Not that many at Falcons games, however at some stadiums like GB and KC, it is a much, much higher percentage that do tailgate. The percentage in Atlanta could be much higher if the opportunity was available and if there was convenient highway access to the stadium location.

Stating many people don't tailgate when there isn't capacity for them to do so does not prove that people don't prefer to tailgate.

Do you see the flaw in this?

[MattCW]

No, not really. If people really wanted to tailgate, they'd find a way to do so.

[gtcorndog]

Originally Posted by MattCW

No, not really. If people really wanted to tailgate, they'd find a way to do so.

That is an overly simplistic way of viewing this.

Given the constraints now, people choose not to. What are some of these constraints? Poor interstate access, traffic, high parking prices (due to lack of surface lots), etc.

Remove or lessen these constraints and suddenly more people partake in this activity, like they do in nearly every other NFL city.


I still have not heard a compelling reason why the new stadium should be downtown versus somewhere else. Is there evidence that a stadium that is filled no more than 25 times a year (counting all events) is a big economic driver for redevelopment?

I'm not a Falcons fan and really don't care, but like playing devil's advocate and having a healthy debate over these issues. If the answer to why people want it downtown is "because it looks cool" or "I really like MARTA" or "I think it makes Atlanta look like a real city" that is fine, but lets be honest and understand that trade offs that are made by locating it downtown. One way isn't right and one way isn't wrong and both have significant pros and cons.

[Lady's Man]

Originally Posted by gtcorndog

That is an overly simplistic way of viewing this.

Given the constraints now, people choose not to. What are some of these constraints? Poor interstate access, traffic, high parking prices (due to lack of surface lots), etc.

Remove or lessen these constraints and suddenly more people partake in this activity, like they do in nearly every other NFL city.


I still have not heard a compelling reason why the new stadium should be downtown versus somewhere else. Is there evidence that a stadium that is filled no more than 25 times a year (counting all events) is a big economic driver for redevelopment?

I'm not a Falcons fan and really don't care, but like playing devil's advocate and having a healthy debate over these issues. If the answer to why people want it downtown is "because it looks cool" or "I really like MARTA" or "I think it makes Atlanta look like a real city" that is fine, but lets be honest and understand that trade offs that are made by locating it downtown. One way isn't right and one way isn't wrong and both have significant pros and cons.

I'd agree more with you if land was more of a scarce resource here. Do you think that the GA Dome is prohibiting growth in downtown Atlanta? I'd say for a city like Atlanta, the pros of a downtown stadium outweigh the cons. Two of my arguments would be:
1) MARTA
2) Central Location

[gtcorndog]

Originally Posted by Lady's Man

I'd agree more with you if land was more of a scarce resource here. Do you think that the GA Dome is prohibiting growth in downtown Atlanta? I'd say for a city like Atlanta, the pros of a downtown stadium outweigh the cons. Two of my arguments would be:
1) MARTA
2) Central Location

I don't think it is necessarily prohibiting growth downtown, but I do not think that it is contributing to growth downtown, not do I think a new stadium downtown will have a significant impact on growing downtown. I do not think that replacing one stadium with another stadium capable of hosting the same events is going to spur economic development. That has been one of the biggest reasons people have cited in the pro-downtown discussion and I think it is absolutely false. Vine City was a turd before the Georgia Dome and 20+ years later it is still a steaming pile. I don't think $20 million invested in a park or whatever Blank has pledged is going to change that. It has been argued that the Dome and GWCC act as a huge barrier between downtown and these other neighborhoods that might organically redevelop without them in the way.

I agree that MARTA and a central location are positives, but at the same time the poor highway access and poor parking situation are negatives. I'm interested to know what this stadium would cost in a non-urban location as I would expect the construction costs to be significantly lower. I haven't seen this published anywhere.

[Lady's Man]

Originally Posted by gtcorndog

I don't think it is necessarily prohibiting growth downtown, but I do not think that it is contributing to growth downtown, not do I think a new stadium downtown will have a significant impact on growing downtown. I do not think that replacing one stadium with another stadium capable of hosting the same events is going to spur economic development. That has been one of the biggest reasons people have cited in the pro-downtown discussion and I think it is absolutely false. Vine City was a turd before the Georgia Dome and 20+ years later it is still a steaming pile. I don't think $20 million invested in a park or whatever Blank has pledged is going to change that. It has been argued that the Dome and GWCC act as a huge barrier between downtown and these other neighborhoods that might organically redevelop without them in the way.

I agree that MARTA and a central location are positives, but at the same time the poor highway access and poor parking situation are negatives. I'm interested to know what this stadium would cost in a non-urban location as I would expect the construction costs to be significantly lower. I haven't seen this published anywhere.

Well I would disagree that it doesn't spur economic development. Imagine if train access was limited in Europe. I'd guarantee you that there would not be as much tourism as there is now. So now imagine if the stadium was not connected to MARTA. I'd guarantee you that there would be an outcry from hotels, restaurants, etc. that are located downtown because they would lose business. Heck, I bet even Delta and Southwest would be protesting, as perspective customers may decide not to travel if there is not a public transportation option for getting to the stadium.

[Psykomonkee]

Anytime I've attended an event at the GA Dome (Falcons games, GA State games etc...) I've always taken MARTA.
Personally, I'm going to be one pissed off fan if the stadium moves to the suburbs and now I have to sit in freeway traffic to get to and from it, just cause it works for a small portion of jerks living OTP.

I asked, "If not downtown, then where?" because I personally feel that no matter where it's put in the suburbs (if it had to go suburban), it's going to be a cluster.... and added stress to traffic, and only good for a portion of the populous.

I SO hate the idea of Atlanta having that masterpiece (the Pantheon) of a stadium put in the suburbs that it makes my skin crawl!

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by Psykomonkee

Personally, I'm going to be one pissed off fan if the stadium moves to the suburbs and now I have to sit in freeway traffic to get to and from it, just cause it works for a small portion of jerks living OTP.

Why wouldn't you take MARTA like you do now? The trains run in both directions.

[MattCW]

There's only a handful, if not one, location where they could build a stadium that MARTA even serves, and that location has been basically rejected by the officials. Even so, the Doraville location wouldn't much help for people coming down 400, the MARTA Red Line just doesn't connect well to the Gold Line, and there's no bus serve between the gap.
"Suburbs" doesn't mean around Inman park, it would mean Marietta, or Gainesville, or Douglasville, or someplace equally far-flung with poor to none transit access.