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This would be a good read for many here, Joel Chandler Harris was considered a champion of racial reconciliation throughout his life.
I don't think anyone is arguing that Harris was a bad person or an evil racist. His books are widely available in the Atlanta Public Library and his historic West End home is promoted on the city's website.
I don't think anyone is arguing that Harris was a bad person or an evil racist. His books are widely available in the Atlanta Public Library and his historic West End home is promoted on the city's website.
It all started because someone equated a politician using the tar baby analogy from Uncle Remus to be a racial slur against the President. Trying to prove a point that will never be proven. People make up their minds about terms, peoples and ideas as racist when there is no racism in mind. I err trying to convince some otherwise.....
It all started because someone equated a politician using the tar baby analogy from Uncle Remus to be a racial slur against the President. Trying to prove a point that will never be proven. People make up their minds about terms, peoples and ideas as racist when there is no racism in mind. I err trying to convince some otherwise.....
What does any of this have to do with the subject matter of this thread? I thought we were talking about a murder that took place.
What does any of this have to do with the subject matter of this thread? I thought we were talking about a murder that took place.
It all started when somebody erroneously stated that crimes in which a White person is the victim and the Black person is the assailant is of no interest to national media and attempted to use the Martin case to make that "point." Then someone else said that the Martin case became a higher profile incident when the president commented on the incident, and this was an example of a "post-racial president" using these incidents to stir "the racial pot when it can serve his agenda"--which is pretty disingenuous since the president has repeatedly played down explicitly racist comments, actions, and depictions directed towards him by various individuals, including a "tar baby" reference or two. So now here we are, arguing about what the term "tar baby" really means.
But this whole "post-racial" crap is just that: crap. The amount of racial and racist propaganda that has been unleashed since this president took office, from anonymous online comments to protests to political pundit commentary, has been absolutely appalling--and I'm not talking about legitimate policy criticisms, but actual racial/racist commentary and propaganda. Let's not even talk about the blatantly racist Tweets about President Obama that have become all too common these days--many originating from millenials, the supposedly "post-racial" generation.
It all started when somebody erroneously stated that crimes in which a White person is the victim and the Black person is the assailant is of no interest to national media and attempted to use the Martin case to make that "point." Then someone else said that the Martin case became a higher profile incident when the president commented on the incident, and this was an example of a "post-racial president" using these incidents to stir "the racial pot when it can serve his agenda"--which is pretty disingenuous since the president has repeatedly played down explicitly racist comments, actions, and depictions directed towards him by various individuals, including a "tar baby" reference or two. So now here we are, arguing about what the term "tar baby" really means.
But this whole "post-racial" crap is just that: crap. The amount of racial and racist propaganda that has been unleashed since this president took office, from anonymous online comments to protests to political pundit commentary, has been absolutely appalling--and I'm not talking about legitimate policy criticisms, but actual racial/racist commentary and propaganda. Let's not even talk about the blatantly racist Tweets about President Obama that have become all too common these days--many originating from millenials, the supposedly "post-racial" generation.
Well, all this has really shown is that having any kind of conversation on crime, race, or both often turns out badly, on both sides. I started this thread to talk about the implications of this crime, mainly how there would be people who would view it in purely a racial perspective. This was not suppose to be about "tar babies", or other stuff. It was suppose to be about how the public might see this. Now it's turned into bickering. I guess it shouldn't surprise me.
It all started because someone equated a politician using the tar baby analogy from Uncle Remus to be a racial slur against the President. Trying to prove a point that will never be proven. People make up their minds about terms, peoples and ideas as racist when there is no racism in mind. I err trying to convince some otherwise.....
Well, I believe most people would interpret referring to the president as a tar baby would be a racial slur. It's got a long history of being used as a way of mocking and deriding blacks.
The fact that the term appears in an Uncle Remus tale doesn't make it any less offensive when used in that context.
That's sort of like me and the term "cracker." Growing up as a poor white, we clearly understood that to be a put down and a term of derision when applied to us. The fact that the word cracker is used in many non-offensive ways doesn't take away the sting.
I have heard the term "tar baby" refer to an argument that you can't win, you just get stuck in the tar. Have heard this term all my life to mean just this. My marriage counselor used that with me and the ex, that certain arguments were 'tar baby' and would lead us to no resolution, just a furthering of an argument with no winning. That tar happens to be black has been misconstrued over the years so I understand that it has taken on a racist tone that it did not have in the original stories. A senator using the term in the original meaning got embroiled in a controversy and was called racist when it was not his intent.
This example was presented when I asked for examples of racism against the president. Another poster used this Tar Baby example by the politician as his chief point to prove the rampant racism against the POTUS. I have taken the side that the term was NOT a racist term in the JCH stories but to no avail. Folks have chosen to believe it is a racist term now because some have misconstrued Harris' stories to be something they never were.
Green Mariner, this forum is sometimes rigid and sometimes loose on how far off topic a subject will go. The race angle was played out about the murder in Cobb. Racism is a complex subject, some call things racist that aren't, some racism goes undetected. I am a proponent of racial reconciliation but realize that some of the supercilious things that are called racist do not aid reconciliation but in actuality make it more difficult to achieve. The conversations led us there, I guess there is only so much you can say about the Cobb murder until more facts come forth. If the conversation takes an interesting turn, some go with it. It is the monitors' decision to shut down a thread when it has veered to far off course and I am surprised it is still going. Maybe it hasn't turned heated or ugly at this point and they are letting it ride. Who knows?
At any rate, my trying to make sense of this is a tar baby argument for sure, it won't be won. I at least hope some will learn that its origins are completely different from what the perception has become. If nothing else I studied up on Joel Chandler Harris and found much more than what I already knew on his progressive stance for his day.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintmarks
A synopsis of how we got here:
I have heard the term "tar baby" refer to an argument that you can't win, you just get stuck in the tar. Have heard this term all my life to mean just this. My marriage counselor used that with me and the ex, that certain arguments were 'tar baby' and would lead us to no resolution, just a furthering of an argument with no winning. That tar happens to be black has been misconstrued over the years so I understand that it has taken on a racist tone that it did not have in the original stories. A senator using the term in the original meaning got embroiled in a controversy and was called racist when it was not his intent.
This example was presented when I asked for examples of racism against the president. Another poster used this Tar Baby example by the politician as his chief point to prove the rampant racism against the POTUS. I have taken the side that the term was NOT a racist term in the JCH stories but to no avail. Folks have chosen to believe it is a racist term now because some have misconstrued Harris' stories to be something they never were.
Green Mariner, this forum is sometimes rigid and sometimes loose on how far off topic a subject will go. The race angle was played out about the murder in Cobb. Racism is a complex subject, some call things racist that aren't, some racism goes undetected. I am a proponent of racial reconciliation but realize that some of the supercilious things that are called racist do not aid reconciliation but in actuality make it more difficult to achieve. The conversations led us there, I guess there is only so much you can say about the Cobb murder until more facts come forth. If the conversation takes an interesting turn, some go with it. It is the monitors' decision to shut down a thread when it has veered to far off course and I am surprised it is still going. Maybe it hasn't turned heated or ugly at this point and they are letting it ride. Who knows?
At any rate, my trying to make sense of this is a tar baby argument for sure, it won't be won. I at least hope some will learn that its origins are completely different from what the perception has become. If nothing else I studied up on Joel Chandler Harris and found much more than what I already knew on his progressive stance for his day.
I have heard the term "tar baby" refer to an argument that you can't win, you just get stuck in the tar. Have heard this term all my life to mean just this. My marriage counselor used that with me and the ex, that certain arguments were 'tar baby' and would lead us to no resolution, just a furthering of an argument with no winning. That tar happens to be black has been misconstrued over the years so I understand that it has taken on a racist tone that it did not have in the original stories. A senator using the term in the original meaning got embroiled in a controversy and was called racist when it was not his intent.
This example was presented when I asked for examples of racism against the president. Another poster used this Tar Baby example by the politician as his chief point to prove the rampant racism against the POTUS. I have taken the side that the term was NOT a racist term in the JCH stories but to no avail. Folks have chosen to believe it is a racist term now because some have misconstrued Harris' stories to be something they never were.
I brought up several examples in post #72 that you never addressed, but you got stuck on the tar baby thing (no pun intended). So I guess you'll tell me that references and images like the the term "boy," depictions as monkeys and gorillas, and watermelon, fried chicken, and Kool-Aid are also pretty innocent in their original contexts and have only been misconstrued as racist.
At any rate, my trying to make sense of this is a tar baby argument for sure, it won't be won. I at least hope some will learn that its origins are completely different from what the perception has become.
My take on it is this. The term started out meaning a problem that only gets worse the more you mess with it. For a lot of people that's still what it means.
However, for some it has also taken on racial overtones.
My feeling is that if people are offended by certain words or phrases then I'm not going to use them. It's just that simple. There are plenty of other ways to say things.
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