I-285 @ GA400 Interchange Renderings from the GDOT (Atlanta, Marietta: employment, centers)

[sedimenjerry]

Originally Posted by jsvh

Nope. Cities grow just fine without billion dollar overhauls of of interchanges. Or Atlanta's ridiculous overbuilding of highways.

That's not what I meant, I meant the added population on the roads. Obviously traffic problems haven't deterred growth.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by sedimenjerry

That's not what I meant, I meant the added population on the roads. Obviously traffic problems haven't deterred growth.

Cars are not the only way people get around. People still get to work fine without 16 lane freeways in cities much larger than Atlanta.

[MattCW]

Yep, two measley minutes isn't worth it. For the cost of this interchange, they could build the Red Line to Northpoint and easily save people an average of 10 minutes. Adding the remainder to Windward would add another few minutes, maybe bringing the savings to as much as 15 minutes.

Originally Posted by jsvh

Those would not be a problem if you have less traffic. Congestion tolls would still solve that root problem of traffic. Plus you would have an added bonus of tolls collected you can use to better maintain and fix other contributing issues.

Just slapping tolls around the interchange would drive the traffic to the side streets, and thus make the average commute longer.

[sedimenjerry]

Originally Posted by jsvh

Cars are not the only way people get around. People still get to work fine without 16 lane freeways in cities much larger than Atlanta.

You still don't get what I'm saying....
When I was growing up and getting larger I had to get larger clothes and shoes. I was still growing so I quickly filled into the new clothes and eventually they got too small and had to buy new clothes again. I could either keep growing while wearing the same undersized clothes or buy new, larger ones knowing full well that I'd just outgrow those clothes but at least be able to breath a little bit. Obviously it's a little more complex than that but still, growth is gonna cause capacity issues. Not doing anything with Atlanta continuing to grow is gonna cause problems. Traffic is already worse over the last 2 years. 10 years from now, Marta won't suddenly be expanded (maybe 20 years) and I doubt Atlanta will have a growth rate of 0. Traffic will be worse no matter what just from growth. Not claiming widening everything (which isn't what this project is) will work. Large portions of 85, 75 and 285 don't need to be widened anymore, a lot of problems are design problems. Just saying that growth will cause problems anyway, like it always has. Do you really think Spaghetti Junction should have remained a cloverleaf?


And 16 lane freeways? LOL. 400 is 6 from 85 to 285 then 8 from 285 to Forsyth County where it drops to 4. 285 is at most 12 including exit only lanes. The top end is usually just 10 without the exit only lanes. 85 is 10 mainlines with 2 HOV/HOT lanes, add two lanes for the exit only stretches (like on 285). Including the HOV lanes the connector sometimes has 16 lanes, but it's also 2 busy interstates put together. The largest in a single direction is the 8 lanes on 75N from 285 but that's with the far right lanes exit only. Also 75S is 7 for that small stretch so you still don't get to 16. I 20 is largely 6 lanes west of 285. Not even sure about ITP and east of 285 but I doubt it's any wider than 85 or 75. 575 is 4 lanes, 985 is four lanes, 316 is four lanes, 78 is 6 lanes. Langford Parkway is 4 lanes I think. PIB is 6 lanes but has a frontage road so there's that.

[J2201987]

Still can't believe this project is costing a billion dollars. Granted it is sorely needed but...wow.

[Gulch]

Originally Posted by J2201987

Still can't believe this project is costing a billion dollars. Granted it is sorely needed but...wow.

Expensive land + materials + need to keep the freeways open during construction = $$$$

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by Gulch

Expensive land + materials + need to keep the freeways open during construction = $$$$

So I'm just browsing at the documents and I was curious.

A few general things I have found on Costs:

Interchange: $725 million
C/D System: 330 million

All of the right of way is charged to the interchange. I'm not sure if it is needed for both or just the interchange alone.

That right of way costs $125 million of the above. Part of the costs will displace a 2 story office building and a 6 story parking deck both located on Lake Hearn Dr.

Engineering costs:
-C/D system: $23.3m
-Interchange: $32.4m

raw construction costs:
-C/D system: $306.4m
-Interchange: $568.4m

Other misc. single items:

Paving and Grading (approx 100 lane miles of paving): $135m

Erosion control and drainage, including C/D and ramps: $45m

Bridges (31 bridges): $140m

Walls (retaining and noise): $140m

Signals and signs (20 signals): $40m

[bu2]

Originally Posted by Gulch

Expensive land + materials + need to keep the freeways open during construction = $$$$

Construction material costs have gone through the roof over the last 20 years with China and India and Brazil developing.

[jsvh]

sedimenjerry - So your agree that traffic will not stop growth here. And people will still find a way to get to work without new roads. So there is no reason to drop a $1B here.

Your comparison of a growing child needing larger clothes would be more accurate as a growing adult. A larger pair of pants is not the solution to obesity.

[JoeP]

Now, can will you admit or deny that your commute will be no better in 10 years?

I'm not talking about the entire commute and overall trends. I'm referring to a specific issue with two interchanges that can be fixed with this project.

If you want to have separate comments about the hopeless traffic situation, go ahead.

Atlanta is a mess. There's no artery north of Paces Ferry to 285 in any direction and next to none from Dunwoody to Marietta. And there's no transit connecting most of these areas.

That will change.