MARTA to make an $8 billion pitch to change the face of Atlanta (Glenwood: assess, mechanic)

[primaltech]

Originally Posted by MattCW

You're missing it with the "feeling" of the buses. People don't ride them because there's some weird bus-phobia, they don't ride them because they are utterly useless!

That's why we need to address the reasons that they are useless. Make them not useless at all.

Here's what I want out of a bus: I want to walk out the door of home or work or wherever I am, and grab the next bus, which should be arriving in less than 10 minutes. I want to take it for granted, not have to check a schedule or time table or anything like that. No matter what day of the week, or what time of day.

I don't care so much if it runs kinda slow during rush hours, because that's no different than the experience in my car. I just don't want it to stop much. Just a few key, quality stops, spaced far apart (like light rail station spacing), with plenty of people getting off and on at each of those stops as quickly as possible, then I get to where I'm going, or connect with another similar transit line taking me to where I'm going.

Also, the bus shouldn't be turning: it should be going straight the whole time. And forget bus loops at the station, just drop me off on that block.

Americans need to be walking more anyway. Let's make transit so that you do have to walk a bit, instead of a bus stop at every block. But, the transit experience is thereby sped up and improved, because it doesn't have to stop 20 times just to let one person on or off. That's one of the main reasons why the bus is hated and just looks and feels so useless. It's freaking slow as can be. The longer routes literally take hours.

[skbl17]

Almost forgot, here are the "No" votes on SB 369:

- Mike Crane (R, district covers far SW Fulton, Coweta, Heard, SE Carroll, and Troup outside of LaGrange)

- Steve Gooch (R/Majority Leader/MARTOC member, district covers much of the North Georgia Mountains)

- Marty Harbin (R, district covers South Fayette, Spalding, Pike, and Lamar)

- Bill Heath (R, district covers most of Paulding, Polk, and Haralson)

- Michael Williams (R, district covers all of Forsyth County)

Again, John Albers voted "yes", but I wonder if Mark Toro and the MARTA supporter Twitter brigade are still slamming him on Twitter.

- skbl17

[bu2]

Originally Posted by primaltech

That's why we need to address the reasons that they are useless. Make them not useless at all.

Here's what I want out of a bus: I want to walk out the door of home or work or wherever I am, and grab the next bus, which should be arriving in less than 10 minutes. I want to take it for granted, not have to check a schedule or time table or anything like that. No matter what day of the week, or what time of day.

I don't care so much if it runs kinda slow during rush hours, because that's no different than the experience in my car. I just don't want it to stop much. Just a few key, quality stops, spaced far apart (like light rail station spacing), with plenty of people getting off and on at each of those stops as quickly as possible, then I get to where I'm going, or connect with another similar transit line taking me to where I'm going.

Also, the bus shouldn't be turning: it should be going straight the whole time. And forget bus loops at the station, just drop me off on that block.

Americans need to be walking more anyway. Let's make transit so that you do have to walk a bit, instead of a bus stop at every block. But, the transit experience is thereby sped up and improved, because it doesn't have to stop 20 times just to let one person on or off. That's one of the main reasons why the bus is hated and just looks and feels so useless. It's freaking slow as can be. The longer routes literally take hours.

Long routes don't work with a bus unless you have dedicated ROW. Its just too slow.

But if its only 3-5 miles, buses can work just fine. Like you suggest, the way it really works is if you don't have to look at a schedule. You just go to the nearest bus stop and one will be there soon. That's the way it was in the European cities I've been in and taken mass transit. That is one of the ideas of the re-imagination of the Houston bus lines that they have just gone through (and expect to eventually increase ridership by 30%).

My experience in Houston was that a mixed group rode the shorter local routes. The longer local routes were almost all very young or very old minority riders who appeared to be lower income.

[tikigod311]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

You realize we would have gotten the same project list either way right?

I have my doubts the Beltline/streetcar would have been built with any sort of urgency. The tax was pushed with the 400 extension, Clifton Corridor and HRT to Stonecrest as the primary sell. Streetcar/Beltline transit was always mentioned as a possibility. All the featured projects were massive and are subject to large cost overruns. Funding for the Beltline had a good chance of being reallocated to make sure these other projects are built.

Now Beltline transit appears to be the feature of this sales tax, they will have to deliver. There is no redirecting funds to projects primarily benefiting commuters into the city. This, to me, is a bigger win for the future of Atlanta

[primaltech]

Originally Posted by tikigod311

I have my doubts the Beltline/streetcar would have been built with any sort of urgency. The tax was pushed with the 400 extension, Clifton Corridor and HRT to Stonecrest as the primary sell. Streetcar/Beltline transit was always mentioned as a possibility. All the featured projects were massive and are subject to large cost overruns. Funding for the Beltline had a good chance of being reallocated to make sure these other projects are built.

Now Beltline transit appears to be the feature of this sales tax, they will have to deliver. There is no redirecting funds to projects primarily benefiting commuters into the city. This, to me, is a bigger win for the future of Atlanta

Great points.

It's going to end up better if the different MARTA jurisdictions do expansions in different years, for just their projects. Feels like more direct/ local control. A clearer picture of what you get with your vote, without being distracted by the rest, which are funded separately.

In fact, what would be great is if South Fulton and North Fulton could each have their own proposals, and could tax separately. Though, I'm sure it's not currently legally possible.

South Fulton should be able to put up a .5 penny sales tax for 40 years collected in S Fulton only, for a new rail line in South Fulton. Similar to how Clayton's deal works.

[fourthwarden]

So, given the good news (for the city, at least) here is a steaming-fresh map of a fanciful routing for our future streetcars and light rail. Enjoy! As always, constructive criticism is welcome and wanted.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

So, given the good news (for the city, at least) here is a steaming-fresh map of a fanciful routing for our future streetcars and light rail. Enjoy! As always, constructive criticism is welcome and wanted.

Nice!

Though I am hoping we might be able to fund a system at least like the "Phase 2 operating plan" (even though not all of it is in EA yet):

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by jsvh

Nice!

Though I am hoping we might be able to fund a system at least like the "Phase 2 operating plan" (even though not all of it is in EA yet):

I totally forgot about the older phased operations plans from the 2014 plan!

I only really looked at the models in Tech. Memorandum 3, which had come out with the 2014 plan.

[primaltech]

Fourthwarden's beautiful combined HRT/LRT map is what I hope they put in both the trains and the streetcars. Combine it all as one integrated thing, one MARTA system.

I want someone who's never been to Atlanta before, to get on the train at the airport and see a bunch of rail-connected destinations in the city to check out.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

So, given the good news (for the city, at least) here is a steaming-fresh map of a fanciful routing for our future streetcars and light rail. Enjoy! As always, constructive criticism is welcome and wanted.

Boone infill station and also hoping to get streetcar to Turner Field redevelopment and Grant Park.