Major Upcoming Atlanta Projects (Alpharetta, Kennesaw: sales, 2015, hotel)

[theurbanfiles]

Was just curious about projects that were ongoing that'll be completed in the next few years or so. Sounds like there's an impressive grouping. So far I have:

1 SunTrust Park (2017)
2 Mercedes Benz Stadium (2017)
3 BeltLine Path Expansion (ongoing)
4 A few new skyscrapers
5 Civil War Museum at AHC
6 Fernbank Museum Expansion
7 Hard Rock Hotel
8 MARTA 8$ Billion Project
9 Lionsgate Theme Park
10 Major New Urbanism Projects

...any others?

[Plokivos]

So... basically like Boston 10 years ago and NYC like 50 years ago. Just constant traffic delays, and unlivable downtown/midtown/anywhere.

"Welcome to Atlanta! It's going to be awesome in 20 years!"

[DirkMcGirt]

$8 Billion MARTA plan? LOLOLOLOL

[Plokivos]

Originally Posted by DirkMcGirt

$8 Billion MARTA plan? LOLOLOLOL

I honestly don't like the overwhelming sarcasm, but I can't help but agree.

What are they planning to do? Why can't they make a direct route from Kennesaw to Alpharetta, to 85 already, like DC's already done. We share the same road design. Atlanta stole DC's road design.

[skbl17]

DirkMcGirt does have a (rare) point...$8 billion is very optimistic, even for MARTA. My Republican state rep regularly uses MARTA and he thinks that the MARTA plan is a little...out there. I agree with him on that.

That said...does MARTA even need $8 billion for the expansions they're proposing? I've been pondering this, and I don't think they need quite that much.

Assuming that the Red Line costs $2 billion (MARTA says $1.6 billion, but we'll round up to take into account cost overruns), the Blue Line costs about the same amount, maybe a tiny bit less, the I-20 BRT is $500 million, and the Clifton Corridor is $1 billion, that brings the total to about $5.5 billion. No small chunk of change, but not the $8 billion MARTA is hoping for.

So, how could MARTA fund $5.5 billion in expansions? I decided to go back and look at the logistics of MARTA's quest for the $8 billion:

- Ask the General Assembly to authorize MARTA member counties to dedicate a 0.5% sales tax increase to rail expansion. This was a provision that quite nearly passed in the 2015 legislative session, so I wouldn't put MARTA's chances at "slim". That said, if MARTA-member representatives and state senators are queasy at the idea, I don't think the legislature will give MARTA the easy way out.

- Ask the member counties to vote on said increase. If it passes, it won't pass easily; MARTA will need a solid plan. "Here's why you should vote 'yes', here's what we will do, here's when it will be finished. You can publicly flog us if we don't deliver."

- Go to the FTA and ask for matching funds. MARTA hypothesizes that the $200 million or so in extra annual funding would somehow lead to $4 billion in construction bonds...which would then be matched by another $4 billion in federal funds. Even with MARTA's amazing bond ratings, I don't see how they can get $8 billion in bonds from the federal government just like that.

Honestly, if MARTA somehow, somehow manages to overcome all the odds and they get their TODs, extra sales tax funding, and federal matching funds, with $8-9 billion or so they should really look beyond the extensions currently on the table.

- skbl17

[theurbanfiles]

So it sounds like the general consensus is that MARTA has grandiose visions for expansion that may not be in line with reality. And even then, spending sounds high for what is needed?

What about the other projects? Is there a generally negative sentiment about the city's trajectory in general? Because to me it looked like there was really some awesome stuff happening. I know for me personally if I moved (and I've strongly considered ATL for university jobs), I would probably have a primary focus on either taking existing MARTA Lines, or living within a ten minute drive so that commuting wasn't even a thought in my mind. That's why Emory is one of my dream schools.

[flamadiddle]

The Lionsgate park is a stretch for the list since it will be way out in Bartow County.

fwiw, I noticed a good deal of construction cranes downtown/midtown while heading to the airport last week, which is a positive sign.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by Plokivos

I honestly don't like the overwhelming sarcasm, but I can't help but agree.

What are they planning to do? Why can't they make a direct route from Kennesaw to Alpharetta, to 85 already, like DC's already done. We share the same road design. Atlanta stole DC's road design.

$8B MARTA Rail Expansion Proposal Explained. Basically, you get what skbl17 talks about: Connect 400 Heavy Rail, I-20 East Heavy Rail, I-20 East Bus Rapid Transit, and the Clifton Corridor.

They can't make a direct route from Kennesaw to Alpharetta because Kennesaw is in Cobb, which is not a part of the MARTA system, and, therefore, doesn't get MARTA service outside of a few select buses. Alpharetta is slated to get rail access with the Connect 400 expansion, with stations at Northpoint Mall, Old Milton Parkway, and Windward Parkway.

Originally Posted by skbl17

DirkMcGirt does have a (rare) point...$8 billion is very optimistic, even for MARTA. My Republican state rep regularly uses MARTA and he thinks that the MARTA plan is a little...out there. I agree with him on that.

That said...does MARTA even need $8 billion for the expansions they're proposing? I've been pondering this, and I don't think they need quite that much.

Assuming that the Red Line costs $2 billion (MARTA says $1.6 billion, but we'll round up to take into account cost overruns), the Blue Line costs about the same amount, maybe a tiny bit less, the I-20 BRT is $500 million, and the Clifton Corridor is $1 billion, that brings the total to about $5.5 billion. No small chunk of change, but not the $8 billion MARTA is hoping for.

You're right about there only being $5.5 Bil. in current MARTA expansions, however, MARTA has said that it would be open to dedicating a (not insignificant) fraction of the funding to expanding light rail, and streetcars within the city / on the Beltline as per the city's plans.

The $8 Bil. represents a total possible funding scenario, we would really see more of a piece by piece backing. One year MARTA would ask for backing for Connect 400. If it received funding, MARTA could then get started on construction as they bid for funding for I-20 East HRT, and so on. We very well may not see a full 1 to 1 federal backing, but it's hard to imagine, with so much available funding, the Fed's wouldn't pick up enough to finish, at least, the $5.5 Bil. that you listed.

So, how could MARTA fund $5.5 billion in expansions? I decided to go back and look at the logistics of MARTA's quest for the $8 billion:

- Ask the General Assembly to authorize MARTA member counties to dedicate a 0.5% sales tax increase to rail expansion. This was a provision that quite nearly passed in the 2015 legislative session, so I wouldn't put MARTA's chances at "slim". That said, if MARTA-member representatives and state senators are queasy at the idea, I don't think the legislature will give MARTA the easy way out.

- Ask the member counties to vote on said increase. If it passes, it won't pass easily; MARTA will need a solid plan. "Here's why you should vote 'yes', here's what we will do, here's when it will be finished. You can publicly flog us if we don't deliver."

- Go to the FTA and ask for matching funds. MARTA hypothesizes that the $200 million or so in extra annual funding would somehow lead to $4 billion in construction bonds...which would then be matched by another $4 billion in federal funds. Even with MARTA's amazing bond ratings, I don't see how they can get $8 billion in bonds from the federal government just like that.

Honestly, if MARTA somehow, somehow manages to overcome all the odds and they get their TODs, extra sales tax funding, and federal matching funds, with $8-9 billion or so they should really look beyond the extensions currently on the table.

- skbl17

It's not ~somehow~, it's that the additional sales tax revenue would, in fact, allow the system's bond ratting to be upgraded. The additional $200 Mil. a year would be enough to finance $4 Bil. in bonds in the long run. The more money you have in revenue, the more bonds you can finance.

The amount of money that they can collect in capital construction bonds would be matched by the feds, not in bond form, but in straight financing.

As for looking beyond the current expansions, I do agree. There are plenty of other corridors that could use dedicated transit.

[AnsleyPark]

Always plan aspirationally. Always ask for more than you want. That way you negotiate down to an acceptably good level.

[cqholt]

Also, those projections may include operating costs for 5 years.