MARTA unveils its dream project list for November Referendum (Atlanta: trolley, downtown)

[magnetar]

Originally Posted by primaltech

How exactly are they going to be double length? Is some guy going to hook on the second car as soon as it turns off Irwin St? Or are you talking about decades from now?

Having the gimmick Downtown Stupid Slow Streetcar be the same thing that runs on the East side Beltline, is a huge mistake, IMO. But I disagree with so much of this stuff.

Are you being willfully obtuse? I posted a picture of two streetcars coupled together, exactly like Charlotte LYNX and exactly like the way they'll run on the Beltline.

The speed of the streetcars downtown have only to do with the fact that they run in traffic... and as I'm explaining this I realize there is NO WAY you don't already know it, I think you just want to argue with someone.

[primaltech]

Dude. Yes, I was being slightly sarcastic. But, Fourthwarden just said something completely different than what you are saying, 2 pages ago. So please don't yell at me because I am genuinely confused, and am trying to figure all this out.

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

Dunno how they'll do it at first. Likely only with one, since the current loop stops are only able to handle one car at a time. don't know if there's a plan to extend the existing platforms or not, but they have tested coupling 2 cars together and running them on the current tracks without issue (other than platform length I).

Then Matt said,

Originally Posted by MattCW

No, the platforms on the current route will be extended and all trains will be able to run with 2 vehicles.

Soooo.... that's why I'm asking. What is the actual plan, and the timeline? Some day eventually it will run as 2 vehicles, once they raise the funds and complete the construction to extend the station platforms on the existing downtown loop? And it seems silly to run the downtown loop with 2 vehicles, when they're struggling with ridership with 1 vehicle.

Sounds to me like the Beltline transit will not run as 2 vehicles, at least for the first few years or more. So whether they technically can or not is kind of irrelevant.

[primaltech]

What they desperately need to do first of all, is give the streetcar a dedicated right of way on its existing route, along with traffic signal prioritization, and etc.

Convert Auburn and Edgewood to one-way streets, and Luckie St and Carnegie Way, as well.

Make them all like the Ellis St segment:

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.7583...7i13312!8i6656

[primaltech]

I dunno how they'd be able to do 2 vehicle length at this stop, since the short straight track there barely fits 1 vehicle:

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.7594...7i13312!8i6656

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by primaltech

So what's the plan for the Beltline light rail? Is it literally just 2 Atlanta Streetcars hooked together? Maybe at least they'll put some different livery on it, so it doesn't say "streetcar" on it?

And where are all the stations going to be? Do they have locations? Station names?

It'll definitely be cool someday when there's a loop route that circles the whole Beltline. That will probably be popular with tourists.

Popular with tourist? It will also connect current neighborhoods, that lack rail transit, to the MARTA HRT backbone and provide transit service to the BeltLine. This will help in reducing the number of BeltLine users who currently drive to the trail and then walk and/or bike. Also, areas like O4W, Virginia-Highland, Grant Park, Peoplestown, Pittsburgh, Mechanicsville, Choosewood Park, Blvd Heights, Westview, etc. will be connected to the HRT backbone network, via mostly dedicated guideways.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by primaltech

Dude. Yes, I was being slightly sarcastic. But, Fourthwarden just said something completely different than what you are saying, 2 pages ago. So please don't yell at me because I am genuinely confused, and am trying to figure all this out.



Then Matt said,



Soooo.... that's why I'm asking. What is the actual plan, and the timeline? Some day eventually it will run as 2 vehicles, once they raise the funds and complete the construction to extend the station platforms on the existing downtown loop? And it seems silly to run the downtown loop with 2 vehicles, when they're struggling with ridership with 1 vehicle.

Sounds to me like the Beltline transit will not run as 2 vehicles, at least for the first few years or more. So whether they technically can or not is kind of irrelevant.

What does it matter if they run 1 or 2 railcar trains? From your comments it appears you are most concerned with looks and appearance of Streetcar vs LRT. The reason the Atlanta Streetcar, went and purcashed brand new Siemens S70 Streetcars, instead of the cheaper used streetcar option, is they were forward thinking and knew the downtown loop would connect to the BeltLine corridor and investing early in newer, more flexible technology would pay off in the end.
In Europe and other countries that operate Tram systems, the railcars move between dedicated ROW and shared ROW. It appears that from the SSP proposed station placement, that the streetcar sections will have closer spaced stations, while the LRT sections will have further spaces stations.

[MattCW]

Originally Posted by primaltech

Dude. Yes, I was being slightly sarcastic. But, Fourthwarden just said something completely different than what you are saying, 2 pages ago. So please don't yell at me because I am genuinely confused, and am trying to figure all this out.



Then Matt said,



Soooo.... that's why I'm asking. What is the actual plan, and the timeline? Some day eventually it will run as 2 vehicles, once they raise the funds and complete the construction to extend the station platforms on the existing downtown loop? And it seems silly to run the downtown loop with 2 vehicles, when they're struggling with ridership with 1 vehicle.

Sounds to me like the Beltline transit will not run as 2 vehicles, at least for the first few years or more. So whether they technically can or not is kind of irrelevant.

I don't think they've gotten much into the technical details, we're guessing. But our statements are not contradictory. It is entirely possible to run single-car trains at start of service until the existing system is refitted to handle 2-car trains. It is likely also possible to position the trains so that half of each vehicle is on the platform and only open those doors. But the downtown loop would no longer be an independent route. At best, it would serve as a "terminal loop" for one end until the other end is operational. In other words, trains operate bidirectionally until they reach the loop, where they resume the current routing. But once they've built off both ends, the current loop becomes just the middle segment of the full routes.

[toll_booth]

Originally Posted by cqholt

What does it matter if they run 1 or 2 railcar trains?

It's a labor cost issue. One rail car every 5 minutes has the same capacity as two rail cars every 10 for half the cost (but slightly less ridership due to the longer headways).

[toll_booth]

Originally Posted by UrbanConquistador

Speaking specifically to the distance between North Ave and Midtown Station, I think a lot of people are unaware that there is a 3rd st. entrance to the North Ave station. It could probably be advertised a bit better, but you can access North Ave. Station from here. So, a station at 5th probably wouldn't be that much of a benefit, considering that you have an entrance 2 short blocks away.

Oh *that's* how you get into the north entrance of the North Avenue Station. Hell that's right down the road from Tech Square.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by toll_booth

It's a labor cost issue. One rail car every 5 minutes has the same capacity as two rail cars every 10 for half the cost (but slightly less ridership due to the longer headways).

I take it you mean that the 2-car train is cheaper than the 1 car train?