Preserving affordable housing in a gentrifying area (Atlanta, St. Simons: renters, movers)

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by ATLTJL

I know someone who used to rent out Section 8 housing. He said that the standards the government forces you to abide by to participate in the Section 8 program are stringent. He was always fixing his places up because he had to. I made fun of him for being a slumlord and he said it's impossible to do because the govt. will just take away your Section 8 authorization.

Unless your connected like HJ Russell. ECA is not being upkept to the level it should be.

[arjay57]

Here's something that may help people get a leg up on affordable housing.

An Obama-era program that begins Jan. 1 could help people across metro Atlanta who are dependent on subsidized housing move into safer neighborhoods and send their children to better schools.

The Atlanta metro area is one of 23 across the country in which the so-called “small area fair market rents” rule must be adopted. That change in calculations for housing vouchers is expected to solve the problem of Section 8 vouchers that don’t cover enough of the rent to make housing in the nicest neighborhoods affordable — such as homes in Sandy Springs, Marietta or John’s Creek.

More....Change in Section 8 rule makes best neighborhoods more accessible

[midgeorgiaman]

Originally Posted by arjay57

Here's something that may help people get a leg up on affordable housing.

This is just great. During the economic downturn 3 houses near me were bought by investors and are rented section 8. All 3 are unkempt. The yards are rarely mowed, trash litters the yard, the trash cans stay by the road 24/7. Summer afternoons are ruined with thumping rap music. It is lovely. End Section 8 and save otherwise nice neighborhoods from being destroyed. Section 8 may be a win for the poor but it destroys otherwise nice middle class neighborhoods. Don't believe the hype. If section 8 is so great why is it that there is no such thing as a safe quiet neighborhood that is majority section 8...most majority section 8 neighborhoods are abbreviated from neighborhood to just the hood.

I know this makes me sound like an elitist uncaring jerk to some and that is fine, but many who advocate for this stuff have no clue how poverty works. Moving section 8 into nice places causes the current residents to move and then more section 8 moves in and then the remainder of residents who actually pay for their housing and have choices leave. Giving people stuff doesnt equate to pride in most cases. You cant socially engineer people out of poverty. Give opportunity such as access to education, job training, and childcare so people can take advantage of education and job training. Stop giving housing vouchers and material stuff. Gifts dont improve poverty and the housing vouchers ruin neighborhoods and communities.

As to the gentrification problem regarding pushing out current residents...this is a difficult issue. As far as renters go...oh well. That is the risk in renting...You have the ability to move when you want, but landlords can force you out too. That is the trade off. Now increasing property taxes...maybe an income test and a freeze or limited property tax increase for low income homeowners.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by midgeorgiaman

This is just great. During the economic downturn 3 houses near me were bought by investors and are rented section 8. All 3 are unkempt. The yards are rarely mowed, trash litters the yard, the trash cans stay by the road 24/7. Summer afternoons are ruined with thumping rap music. It is lovely. End Section 8 and save otherwise nice neighborhoods from being destroyed. Section 8 may be a win for the poor but it destroys otherwise nice middle class neighborhoods. Don't believe the hype. If section 8 is so great why is it that there is no such thing as a safe quiet neighborhood that is majority section 8...most majority section 8 neighborhoods are abbreviated from neighborhood to just the hood.

I know this makes me sound like an elitist uncaring jerk to some and that is fine, but many who advocate for this stuff have no clue how poverty works. Moving section 8 into nice places causes the current residents to move and then more section 8 moves in and then the remainder of residents who actually pay for their housing and have choices leave. Giving people stuff doesnt equate to pride in most cases. You cant socially engineer people out of poverty. Give opportunity such as access to education, job training, and childcare so people can take advantage of education and job training. Stop giving housing vouchers and material stuff. Gifts dont improve poverty and the housing vouchers ruin neighborhoods and communities.

Areas like Johns Creek are pretty robust. They ought to be able to handle a good bit of Section 8 without any problem. I'm sure most Section 8 tenants simply want to live quietly and send their kids to the same schools and shop and dine in the same places that well-to-do homeowners avail themselves of.

I'd say the same thing for closer in communities such as Candler Park, Cascade and East Cobb. If we don't make the good things available to all we only wind up with greater income inequality.

[ronricks]

Originally Posted by arjay57

Areas like Johns Creek are pretty robust. They ought to be able to handle a good bit of Section 8 without any problem. I'm sure most Section 8 tenants simply want to live quietly and send their kids to the same schools and shop and dine in the same places that well-to-do homeowners avail themselves of.

I'd say the same thing for closer in communities such as Candler Park, Cascade and East Cobb. If we don't make the good things available to all we only wind up with greater income inequality.

Having people shop and dine in places they can’t really afford actually creates income inequality. You have it backwards.

[Forhall]

It will still be possible for landlords to say no in affluent areas. No one will force them.

That said, you can't force high poverty populations into affluent areas and expect no change. Those areas are safe, expensive, and have great schools and amenities precisely because the residents are all higher income. Opening it to lower income people sounds great in theory, but will simply lead to a downturn in the area over time as crime spikes and local public schools start getting lower test scores.

[seussie]

Originally Posted by ATLTJL

Tough situation.

At the same time, the neighborhood should preserve some of its history. But capitalism is capitalism, and you have to let our system do what it does.

Pretty tough situation indeed with no easy answers.

I know what capitalism in the US has done; and it's not just some system churning by itself. It follows those market movers and institutions who have historically redlined mortgaging opportunities to those economically worthy; it's a system that has defunded or removed investments from communities that market movers or institutions deem uncouth, unworthy, crime-prone. In the US it is especially a system propelled by slave labor, Reconstruction-era discrimination, the denial of benefits to a vast majority of families whose labor was/is exploited; it's a system that gives Holocaust victims reparations and denies it to African-descended families; it's a system that enables people whose white families fled from urban areas to believe that the causes of inner-city issues is just "economics."

I swear, it is very clear people here to do not* [edit] understand how poverty is tied to far more than economics; and as folk have already said, pushing people out is absolutely no solution. Now that white folk want to move back into Atlanta, which has been wrecked for decades and even more sharply after '08, now people want to feel entitled to criticize the conditions of someone's life without knowing their stories. It's abundantly clear that folks with these responses have no interest in poverty but just simply cleaning up around the house or area they want.* [edit]

The conservative idea that capitalism will solve anything is willful blindness by mostly white folk. It's not a tough situation if people could think beyond their own so-called newfound ownership over a place.

It's sad to come to this forum and see how much people rant and rave about how they want Atlanta but don't want what Atlanta is or became because of things other than x people not doing enough or y people living off subsidies or w people committing p.

That type of thinking just shows your privilege on a banner.

[Gulch]

Originally Posted by seussie

I know what capitalism in the US has done; and it's not just some system churning by itself. It follows those market movers and institutions who have historically redlined mortgaging opportunities to those economically worthy; it's a system that has defunded or removed investments from communities that market movers or institutions deem uncouth, unworthy, crime-prone. In the US it is especially a system propelled by slave labor, Reconstruction-era discrimination, the denial of benefits to a vast majority of families whose exploited labor; it's a system that gives Holocaust victims reparations and denies it to African-descended families; it's a system that enables people whose white families fled from urban areas to believe that the causes of inner-city issues is just "economics."

I swear, it is very clear people here to do understand how poverty is tied to far more than economics; and as folk have already said, pushing people out is absolutely no solution. Now that white folk want to move back into Atlanta, which has been wrecked for decades and even more sharply after '08, now people want to feel entitled to criticize the conditions of someone's life without knowing their stories.

The conservative idea that capitalism will solve anything is willful blindness by mostly white folk. It's not a tough situation if people could think beyond their own so-called newfound ownership over a place.

It's sad to come to this forum and see how much people rant and rave about how they want Atlanta but don't want what Atlanta is or became because of things other than x people not doing enough or y people living off subsidies or w people committing p.

That type of thinking just shows your privilege on a banner.

So what's your solution?

[seussie]

What's been yours?

I'm from the SWATS; moved back to Atlanta with two degrees, participating in my local schools, voting against cityhood movements, voting for city transparency, developing a non-profit arts for education, contributing writing outside of website forums, communicating with my neighbors and planning for neighbor-interested projects, not voting for the President we have now, participating in a range of institutions that help enfranchise poor and working class people, working with a working class that is not just white and rural--- and not bringing chai lattes with me or buying them. I also don't back out of arguments that need to happen.

edit* tl;dr: working locally without trying to change the demographics of my community-- which would be myself and background anyway.

[Gulch]

Originally Posted by seussie

What's been yours?

edit* tl;dr: working locally without trying to change the demographics of my community-- which would be myself and background anyway.

Sounds like your main concern is keeping Atlanta black.