Two stadiums, two wildly different political outcomes (Atlanta, Columbus: 2013, apartment)

[netdragon]

Originally Posted by LovinDecatur

The dissent could hardly be characterized as group of loud-mouthed marauders. If the process was fair and inclusive, why the widespread shock over the announcement? And why was it done with no forethought whatsoever for the stadium's impact on infrastructure? Many Cobb residents saw this for what it was, and Lee got handed his hat for it, plain and simple.

Actually, as someone very active at the time I know that many of the solutions that came out were things that were already planned to be done "some day" but never had funding. They just got pushed forward by the stadium and had to be done then and there instead of "some day". Some were planned and funded for 2017 anyway, like the divergent diamond, widening and street re-alignments on Windy Hill. The trails and sidewalks were things that were actually being advocated for and may have become part of the CID Master plan had it actually had a chance to move forward. Even the pedestrian bridge. Then, of course, it'd have taken 10-15 years for them to happen b/c private businesses in the CID would have had to fund a lot of it for the anti-tax people who actually benefit from the CID in terms of property values if not for jobs to go along with it.

Actually, most of Cumberland, Smyrna and Mableton was very pro-stadium and that is about 1/3 of Cobb's population right there. So much so that Bob Ott's mild opposition to the stadium (regardless of how he voted) along with his opposition of the streetcar - was one of the major reasons that Bob Ott had to gerrymander his district to not get voted out by Smyrna and Mableton.

[chiatldal]

Originally Posted by Gulch

So apparently the concept of citizens having a say in how their tax dollars are spent is a nuisance to you.

Atlanta residents didn't vote for the Falcons stadium either.......... That's the straw man in this

Building the Stadium in Cobb is nearly just as out there as building transit in Cobb. Conservative voters will reject either or.

Tim was republican but he did the progressive stance on this issue, He sided with Cumberland aspect for growth, urbanism and the ARC plans.

What trip me on this issue is the few progressive, pro urban posters of Atlanta. Cheerleading the conservative voters of Cobb. Because they dislike the idea itself that the Braves left the city proper...... They say their issue with Cobb are the conservative, anti Atlanta, anti transit, anti regional elements in Cobb. When actually their Cheerleading that group over the progressive, pro transit, pro regional leaders in Cobb.

The Cumberland CID that wanted the stadium are same leaders and community that funded Transit studies for over a decade and have been pushing the issue. The Anti Stadium sentiments is same conservative populism that also rejecting Transit. For progressive pro urban CoA posters, to cheer Cobb conservative populism as if Atlanta voted Falcon stadium. Make it oblivious the real reason it's not conservatives, it's not the voters, it's not transit. It's they don't like the Baves are relocating in Cobb.

[fourthwarden]

It isn't a strawman. The city money for the Falcons Stadium came frome the Hotel-Motel tax, NOT the general tax payers or the general fund. Period.


The county money for the Braves Stadium came from the Geral fund, collected from general tax payers, and a previously voter-approved tax for a completely separate use.

[netdragon]

Originally Posted by chiatldal

What trip me on this issue is the few progressive, pro urban posters of Atlanta. Cheerleading the conservative voters of Cobb. Because they dislike the idea itself that the Braves left the city proper...... They say their issue with Cobb are the conservative, anti Atlanta, anti transit, anti regional elements in Cobb. When actually their Cheerleading that group over the progressive, pro transit, pro regional leaders in Cobb.

And lets add that a lot of it was an excuse for Tim Lee and the council to push forward a lot of Cobb's backlogged progressive projects that residents in places like Smyrna and business leaders in the CID have been pushing for a long time to happen in the Cumberland area. Heck, beyond just things like sidewalks and transit circulators or even far-out things like the streetcar/BRT concept (which was pushed for over a decade too) it didn't even have a fire station near the interchange, and the police station was on the end of Cumberland Pkwy so it had to partially loan Smyrna's services (which as far as policing, Smyrna did voluntarily). This is an area with a ton of 20 story buildings. It is an area that had a Liveable Centers Initiative over a decade ago which for cost reasons had the results almost completely ignored. It was an area that had gaps in trails between Smyrna's and Cumberland's trail network. It was preposterous.

So of course, it wasn't even the $250 million earmarked for the stadium, but the anti-tax people got angry when all of a sudden a bunch of things started happening that cost money, that had been put on the backburner for so long, and would cost much more.

However, it's really a result of anti-tax negligence in the past spearheaded by the conservatives that it all had to happen so fast. Most of these things were not surprises.

I think the big idea sometimes is that GA is more efficient with money due to its fiscal conservative anti-tax approach. Perhaps sometimes that's true, but sometimes it's just negligence. Like the fiasco when we had a tiny bit of snow in '14. But I digress.

[ATLTJL]

I just think it's short-sighted. "Hey, let's spur economic development with a ball park!"

It may work in the short-term, but show me a suburban ball park or stadium that has a net positive long-term impact on its surrounding area. Do they exist?

[netdragon]

Originally Posted by ATLTJL

I just think it's short-sighted. "Hey, let's spur economic development with a ball park!"

It may work in the short-term, but show me a suburban ball park or stadium that has a net positive long-term impact on its surrounding area. Do they exist?

Results speak louder than guesses, and it looks like Tim Lee was right with all the new development going on. Having been active in Smyrna/Cumberland for a while, i don't agree with others that so many of these projects "would have happened anyway". Cumberland was always an afterthought and many big projects were on hold for over a decade. Sure, there was some development like Bell Vinings, and Overton Park II's apartments, Belmont Hills, etc and some office spillover from Perimeter CID but this stuff is really a joke compared to what Cumberland should have been capable of.

This development got everyone's attention. The timing was perfect, and things blew up.

The stadium is a small part of what is happening in Suntrust Park. The mixed-use portion is huge, more cost than the stadium itself, and will be vibrant 24/7 and is as big and expensive as Avalon in Alpharetta. It also spurred a lot of additional development. There are also probably 30,000-50,000 new residents coming to the core Cobb area of Cumberland, Marietta city, Vinings and Smyrna between now and 2025. Basically, the trade area surrounding Cumberland. Town Center will also benefit. As far as jobs, Cobb will take a huge leap.

So it's really "let's spur development with a Comcast HQ and a billion dollar of mixed-use development along with encouraging additional development that wouldn't have happened along with jolting proposed mixed-use and office development projects that has been sitting idle for over a decade. And it worked!

Tim Lee was very in touch with the business community, perhaps too in touch for some people in Cobb, and he knew exactly what it'd do. He also knew ahead of proposing it that it was going to be more than just a stadium.

[brownhornet]

The funny part is, people are pissed about what he did in making the deal but celebrating about all of the development that came as a result of it.

[netdragon]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

It isn't a strawman. The city money for the Falcons Stadium came frome the Hotel-Motel tax, NOT the general tax payers or the general fund. Period.


The county money for the Braves Stadium came from the Geral fund, collected from general tax payers, and a previously voter-approved tax for a completely separate use.

Actually, that's incorrect. A good chunk of the stadium costs are coming from Hotel-Motel and taxi tax along with 1% CID tax increase. The Braves are also paying for the ~ $500 million mixed-use portion themselves other than help provided for the pipeline move and infrastructure around the CID. They're also covering over half the stadium costs.

Additionally, if it weren't for the CID, Cobb resident taxes would be much higher, land value would be lower, and there'd be significantly less jobs. People really should support the CID on the rare occasion it doesn't do everything itself.

The liability to Cobb for this stadium is temporary, and though conservative commissioners couldn't promise as such, it'll probably have paid itself back in new revenue from additional developments it attracted within 5-10 years or less, then it's all gravy after that. It'll also be a boon for school taxes. Have you seen, for instance, what Overton Park I pays in school taxes? That's with 0 residents. Here, lemme help... $339,861.87 in school taxes and $16,098.72 in school bond (total taxes $623,735.98). So new developments like Overton Park I? You do the math.
Source: http://www.cobbassessor.org/cobbga/d...=1&LMparent=20

[ATLTJL]

I wish Cobb well with the ball park, I really do. I have no skin in the game, so I don't really care one way or the other. But to me, the real litmus test is going to be what happens to home values 5-10 years from now.

[netdragon]

The biggest thing for home values right now (aside from townhomes and those that can benefit from an endless supply of new private schools) are Cobb needs to take back leadership for schools in the metro area. Now, don't get me wrong, Cobb schools are still good (e.g. my father just got statistics from his ivy league frat that shows Cobb public schools lead metro Atlanta in admissions from public schools in metro Atlanta) but there's some things they can do to decrease the discrepancy in number of distractions between high income schools versus schools with more income diversity like Smyrna.