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Yet me just ask this. Is the metro area better off with SunTrust Park instead of Turner Field? Pretty obvious that the development around STP is light years ahead of what Turner had.
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Originally Posted by whodean
I can understand how an ITP'er without a car, like jsvh here, would feel jealous of SunTrust park in Cumberland
Yep. I have said before, surrounding the stadium with good mixed use development. And the Battery is nice. But they cold have done that (and more) in Atlanta if they wanted.
No I do understand that, and your frustration with it, and you and I are both opposed to the sentiment of that anti-city/anti-transit quote from that GOP moron. I just think that's a highly exaggerated and overblown overall point you're trying to frame around it. Only valid up to an extent. Perhaps you need to take a step back and get a little perspective on it.
First of all, the Braves are a privately-owned company, and their one goal is to maximize revenue and profit. That's their thought process and motivation- not racism, and not bias against urban cities. And they determined that relocating to 30339 from Summerhill, would be a financially good move, for multiple reasons. One being that they'd no longer have to deal with or line the pockets of the City of Atlanta political leadership, and all the bureaucracy involved and surrounding all of that.
A more important one being that their previous location offered the worst of both worlds, really. In the heart of the city yet without the advantages of proximity to a MARTA rail station. In a city with tons of great restaurants and bars that fans would be interested in, but at a location nowhere near any of that. And also with its sea of parking in an area where a lot of people, especially suburbanites (who make up most of the fan base), have a perception of increased crime or danger, and a lot of aggressive panhandling and such. Whether that perception is valid or not doesn't matter. The popular narrative (which is what matters to a patron-seeking business), was that the area around the Ted was rough neighborhoods of abandoned buildings and barbed windows and etc. And anything perceived as a deterrent to fans is not good for business.
So, they're catering to the majority of the fan base. And enter Cobb County which offered them a great deal (so good that it got the chairman kicked out of office), and it was a logical move. It was closer to the geographic center where the fans are, and at a location where not only was there not a negative perception of crime or whatever, but they had enough land that they could build a mixed-use development around it, so that people could walk to bars and activities along with their day at the game.
Class and race are factors in all this, but they were even before the move. Atlanta is a majority black city, but how many of the fans at Turner Field on any given night were black? Or how many of the fans lived in the city? Let alone in that part of the city.
And if you, or anyone in the city wants to go to the game and support the Braves, it's not much less convenient than it was. Just a few miles/ highway exits away, just outside the city limits.
So, overall, it's not that I don't agree with or share your sentiments, but I also think it's highly exaggerated. Folks need to take a chill pill about this, either go to the games or don't, either be a fan or supporter or not. But it's not some great betrayal by sinister racist forces or whatever.
Yep. There were problems with the area around Turner, but a lot of those issues were the Braves could have fixed. If you went just a few more blocks away from the stadium it was a great neighborhood and is seeing a lot more growth than the area around STP, and GSU's redevelopment is further evidence that it is not the area that was the problem.
And yep, you can't blame Liberty Media for taking $400M tax dollar hand out for their share holders. But I am not sure how you can't understand how that all results in many in Atlanta feeling a lot less enthusiasm for the Braves. Guess you will just have to put me in the "don't be a fan" column. But don't expect me to not try to explain it to those like OP that think: "...there is no excitement around the new stadium or the Braves. "
...GSU's redevelopment is further evidence that it is not the area that was the problem.
Yes the area was actually a big part of the problem/downsides/negatives of the previous location.
And GSU's redevelopment was only possible after the Braves moved away. Because far less parking is now needed or is now lucrative there. Whoever owned all those parking lots around the Ted was making a killing off of them, and from what I understand was unwilling to have any of it redeveloped. But now with the team gone, they probably were willing to up and sell it all, thus the redevelopment. So don't forget to leave that key info out of your comments, there.
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But I am not sure how you can't understand how that all results in many in Atlanta feeling a lot less enthusiasm for the Braves.
Why would you think I don't understand that? As I said, I do understand that.
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But don't expect me to not try to explain it to those like OP that think: "...there is no excitement around the new stadium or the Braves. "
But the OP was mistaken with that statement. There is plenty of excitement around the new stadium. Whether or not YOU are excited is immaterial to that question.
And I'm sure there will be plenty of excitement around the Braves if/once they ever start playing World Series competitive baseball again.
If we want to hate on somebody, let's all hate on Liberty Media, impersonal, out of state corporate owners who have been tanking and neglecting the Braves since 2007, years before any of this new stadium business.
Yes the area was actually a big part of the problem/downsides/negatives of the previous location.
And GSU's redevelopment was only possible after the Braves moved away. Because far less parking is now needed or is now lucrative there. Whoever owned all those parking lots around the Ted was making a killing off of them, and from what I understand was unwilling to have any of it redeveloped. But now with the team gone, they probably were willing to up and sell it all, thus the redevelopment. So don't forget to leave that key info out of your comments, there.
Not true. Almost all the parking around the stadium was on long-term lease to the Braves. The city brought the Braves multiple plans to redevelop that area before they left.
And even if it was the Braves leaving that triggered all the surrounding lots to be sold for redevelopment in the area, isn't that just further evidence that the Braves were the root of the problems and not the area?
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Originally Posted by primaltech
Why would you think I don't understand that? As I said, I do understand that.
Great. I that is all I can ask. I know changing the mind of most fans is not going to happen. Even if they start sacrificing babies over home plate every game, there will still be those out there defending the Braves.
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Originally Posted by primaltech
But the OP was mistaken with that statement.
I don't agree. Can we not allow those like myself that think differently to share without the hate squad kicking into high gear every time?
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Originally Posted by primaltech
If we want to hate on somebody, let's all hate on Liberty Media, impersonal, out of state corporate owners who have been tanking and neglecting the Braves since 2007, years before any of this new stadium business.
I can agree with that. Kind of like North Korea, I don't hate the people there. Just have issues with their leadership and the actions they have taken. Just don't expect me to go around cheering for North Korea even if I have heritage there (I don't).
And even if it was the Braves leaving that triggered all the surrounding lots to be sold for redevelopment in the area, isn't that just further evidence that the Braves were the root of the problems and not the area?
Doesn't even matter. The issue was the perception of the area that the fans generally had.
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I don't agree. Can we not allow those like myself that think differently to share without the hate squad kicking into high gear every time?
You can't "not agree" that there is excitement. Tickets to the opening game sold out in less than one minute, and the first few home games all quickly sold out.
It's not a matter of opinion, here. Anyone who thinks "there is no excitement around the new stadium or the Braves", is objectively incorrect.
I'm a city of Atlanta resident and have been a Braves fan since day one. For many years we had season tickets that were arguably some of the best seats in the house. We've followed and supported the city and the team through many ups and downs.
I am fine with the new Braves stadium and the surrounding development. It is obviously a boost to the Cumberland area and to the ATL as a whole.
Doesn't even matter. The issue was the perception of the area that the fans generally had.
Not sure that really is the issue. As that could have been fixed by the Braves allowing some good mixed use development to happen around Turner. I mean, that perception will be gone anyways when a Braves fan comes to catch a GSU game in ten years. "The area" will not stick as a justification for this relocation to anyone except for those that are just anti-City-of-Atlanta.
Braves fans just need to own up that they have poor leadership at that burned bridges with Atlanta to get a larger tax handout for their bottom line. Is there really a single person here that thinks the Braves would be in Cobb without that tax handout? That is the reason for the move. Braves supporters only dig the hole deeper and deeper by trying to frame it as the motivation for the move being a lack of fans in the city or the city being a bad place.
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Originally Posted by primaltech
You can't "not agree" that there is excitement. Tickets to the opening game sold out in less than one minute, and the first few home games all quickly sold out.
It's not a matter of opinion, here. Anyone who thinks "there is no excitement around the new stadium or the Braves", is objectively incorrect.
If you are going go literal on "no" meaning not a single ounce from a single person then yes, there was excitement. I know there are sports fans that will be excited no matter what. But excitement is relative. I know some fellow Atlanta United fans that went to opening day and were disappointed with how muted the crowds were.
"The area" will not stick as a justification for this relocation to anyone except for those that are just anti-City-of-Atlanta.
Oh come on now. There are lots of degrees of metropolitan fandom of the city proper of Atlanta.
Yes there are extremists on both sides, people that irrationally dislike the city in general and rarely go to the city, and people who are adoring apologists for every square inch of the whole city.
I think the average person is somewhere in the middle. Maybe they love Peachtree St and Va-Hi, but are scared of/ and/or just plain don't enjoy Capitol Avenue and that area.
That's wonderful that you're more open-minded about these neighborhoods than the average person, but that doesn't change that they're still the average person. Also doesn't mean that they hate the city.
I think it's fair to stereotype that northside suburbanites are generally scared of basically everything south of Memorial or so. Does not mean that they are anti-Atlanta. They just prefer to stick to the gentrified parts.
I'm a little more open-minded about the city, but I also can't really blame them for that. I'm probably somewhere between the suburbanites and the city advocates as yourself.
Oh come on now. There are lots of degrees of metropolitan fandom of the city proper of Atlanta.
Yes there are extremists on both sides, people that irrationally dislike the city in general and rarely go to the city, and people who are adoring apologists for every square inch of the whole city.
I think the average person is somewhere in the middle. Maybe they love Peachtree St and Va-Hi, but are scared of/ and/or just plain don't enjoy Capitol Avenue and that area.
That's wonderful that you're more open-minded about these neighborhoods than the average person, but that doesn't change that they're still the average person. Also doesn't mean that they hate the city.
I think it's fair to stereotype that northside suburbanites are generally scared of basically everything south of Memorial or so. Does not mean that they are anti-Atlanta. They just prefer to stick to the gentrified parts.
I'm a little more open-minded about the city, but I also can't really blame them for that. I'm probably somewhere between the suburbanites and the city advocates as yourself.
Yes, the Braves were very direct about catering more towards their northern suburban fans with "fears" of downtown than concerns about those in the city who lack good access to Cobb after announcing this move. But even with that clear preference the Braves still would not have moved without that tax handout from Cobb, agreed?
You're absolutely right that it's ridiculous that there's not a rail link between Cumberland and the core of the city. It's ridiculous that it didn't exist years ago, but it's even more asinine that they'd now move the pro sports team out here and then also neglect to concurrently start the serious discussion about mass transit.
GOP morons and bigots and etc. That's all I have to say about all that.
Luckily that group is slowing losing its dominant power and hold on Cobb, and eventually there will be rail.
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