Express lanes having a big impact (Atlanta, Alpharetta: co-op, buyers, public schools)

[samiwas1]

Originally Posted by green_mariner

Meanwhile, I-20 is a grand mess much of the time.

Are you talking about traffic wise? I find 20 to be pretty decent every time I've been on it, at least ITP. It bunches up the last 1/2 mile to 1 mile or so heading into the connector in the mornings, but other than that, I've had very few issues on it.

Originally Posted by PKCorey

The Southside hasn't embraced it. I'm not sure why since the toll rates are still reasonable as heck. I still haven't seen the toll rate exceed $2 yet.

Yep...I use the 75 northside lanes periodically when we head up to lake point or other areas. I'll take them if there's even the slightest inkling that the main road may slow down...it's just too cheap not to.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by samiwas1

Are you talking about traffic wise? I find 20 to be pretty decent every time I've been on it, at least ITP. It bunches up the last 1/2 mile to 1 mile or so heading into the connector in the mornings, but other than that, I've had very few issues on it.



Yep...I use the 75 northside lanes periodically when we head up to lake point or other areas. I'll take them if there's even the slightest inkling that the main road may slow down...it's just too cheap not to.

I rarely see significant problems on I-20 West. And inbound in the mornings its not too bad near the connector. But there are problems on the east side from 285 outbound in the afternoons. I usually get stuck if its anywhere near rush hour.

[Need4Camaro]

I-20 ITP usually flows about as decently as I-75 ITP. I-20 OTP on the otherhand... that's a different story.

On the west it usually backs up between Six Flags and I-285.

On the east, from between Evens Mill Rd or sometimes even GA124 to I-285.

Its needed a facelift for a long time. It's way outdated.

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by samiwas1

Are you talking about traffic wise? I find 20 to be pretty decent every time I've been on it, at least ITP. It bunches up the last 1/2 mile to 1 mile or so heading into the connector in the mornings, but other than that, I've had very few issues on it.

Traffic-wise it has been a nightmare, specifically the corridor between Thornton Road and Fulton Industrial, and it gets crazier from that point into Atlanta.

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

I-20 ITP usually flows about as decently as I-75 ITP. I-20 OTP on the otherhand... that's a different story.

On the west it usually backs up between Six Flags and I-285.

On the east, from between Evens Mill Rd or sometimes even GA124 to I-285.

Its needed a facelift for a long time. It's way outdated.

I'm talking about I-20 outside the Perimeter, particularly between Thornton Road and Fulton Industrial.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by bu2

I rarely see significant problems on I-20 West. And inbound in the mornings its not too bad near the connector. But there are problems on the east side from 285 outbound in the afternoons. I usually get stuck if its anywhere near rush hour.

Originally Posted by samiwas1

Are you talking about traffic wise? I find 20 to be pretty decent every time I've been on it, at least ITP. It bunches up the last 1/2 mile to 1 mile or so heading into the connector in the mornings, but other than that, I've had very few issues on it.



Yep...I use the 75 northside lanes periodically when we head up to lake point or other areas. I'll take them if there's even the slightest inkling that the main road may slow down...it's just too cheap not to.

I-20 West, from I-285 to the River gets congested even outside of rush hour, due to tractor trailers merging from I-285 and having to climb the hill westbound and truck traffic from FIB to I-285 having to slow down for the ramps.

[samiwas1]

Originally Posted by bu2

I rarely see significant problems on I-20 West. And inbound in the mornings its not too bad near the connector. But there are problems on the east side from 285 outbound in the afternoons. I usually get stuck if its anywhere near rush hour.

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

I-20 ITP usually flows about as decently as I-75 ITP. I-20 OTP on the otherhand... that's a different story.

On the west it usually backs up between Six Flags and I-285.

On the east, from between Evens Mill Rd or sometimes even GA124 to I-285.

Its needed a facelift for a long time. It's way outdated.

Originally Posted by green_mariner

Traffic-wise it has been a nightmare, specifically the corridor between Thornton Road and Fulton Industrial, and it gets crazier from that point into Atlanta.

Originally Posted by green_mariner

I'm talking about I-20 outside the Perimeter, particularly between Thornton Road and Fulton Industrial.

Yes...OTP it definitely does have some issues. Many are related to the terrible ramp designs intersecting 285 with inbound traffic. Outbound on the east side, it's three lanes before I-20 merges on. Then I-20 merges on with two lanes, and Wesley Chapel merges on just 1/4 mile later. Drops to four lanes in about half a mile, then down to three lanes about two miles later. Recipe for disaster.

Originally Posted by cqholt

I-20 West, from I-285 to the River gets congested even outside of rush hour, due to tractor trailers merging from I-285 and having to climb the hill westbound and truck traffic from FIB to I-285 having to slow down for the ramps.

Oh, trust me, I know. My last show was on Fulton Industrial, so I took this ramp from 285 to 20W many times. Might be literally the worst ramp design in the city. A single exit lane on a sharp curve from 285 to 20W from each direction, then those lanes merge with just 1000 feet of merge space before merging with 20W into a lane that becomes exit only just a mile down. So 90% of the merging traffic has to get over another lane. With the sheer number of trucks using that route, it effectively slows that interchange down to about 10 miles per hour for most of the day.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by bu2

https://blog.chron.com/opportunityur...houston-model/

Well it sounds like the Northside lanes are doing what is needed. From the article:

"...For example, Bertaud shows that big cities are more productive because they have bigger labor markets, meaning employers and employees are more likely to find a match that needs their needs and skills. He also shows that the size of a labor market depends on commute times: only people located within an hour of a job center should be considered a part of the labor market.

Urban planners who try to slow down commute speeds — either by getting people out of their cars and onto transit or by deliberately allowing congestion to grow to reducing driving — end up fracturing major urban areas into multiple smaller labor markets. Planners seek to turn urban areas into “urban villages” in which people both live and work, but such villages, says Bertaud, don’t exist: even though many suburbs have a jobs-housing balance, most people don’t work in the suburbs in which they live. All of these things reduce urban productivity....


These insights are expanded upon in much greater detail in the book’s longest chapter, on mobility (Chapter 5). I don’t have the space to summarize that, but a couple of key points are worthy of mention. First is that a poly-centric or widely dispersed pattern of job locations is more conducive to transportation that efficiently links workers to jobs than the 19th-century monocentric pattern, with a transport network focused on a “central business district.” Second, he explains that the trendy idea of “urban villages”—where people can live and work within walking or bicycling distance—is a recipe for stagnation. Yes, people might find “a” job in that village, but it is highly unlikely to be a high-productivity job. This planning policy would reduce, rather than increase, a metro area’s economic productivity...."”

Very interesting!

I wonder how many urban planners actually live the way they recommend that others live?

[testa50]

I always love reading the extreme criticism architect77 has about all things roadway related. Some of the better posting on this forum.

Also, when people say "adding lanes doesn't help" and other people dismiss the idea entirely, we need to be more specific about what is being discussed.

It's quite complex:

1. The shorter commute times "induce demand" in traffic over the long run because people realize the commute isn't so bad from the NW side, so they buy/build more homes in the area to take advantage of the faster commute.
2. People on the NW side now also have the ability to commute deeper into the city (top end 285, downtown, airport, etc) in the same amount of time. They'll tend to do this. Therefore, it's reasonable to expect that traffic will get worse on the major roads feeding into 75.
3. The flip side of #1 is that the people were likely to buy/build homes somewhere, so it makes some degree of economic sense to build them in this area which now has improved roadway access rather than spread across the other parts of metro Atlanta. So in that sense, perhaps it does benefit traffic to a minuscule degree across the whole metro, since more growth is directed to this area with a new transportation project.
4. It definitely encourages suburban sprawl to have this sort of project, as it opens up a new area into having a greater degree of commuting options that is very suburban. This is why city advocates are sometimes against this sort of project--it tilts the scales more in favor of the suburbs being feasible to develop further.
5. Traffic is gonna keep on getting worse in general forever and everyone should probably just get over it. Until self driving cars, at least.

[architect77]

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

I-20 ITP usually flows about as decently as I-75 ITP. I-20 OTP on the otherhand... that's a different story.

On the west it usually backs up between Six Flags and I-285.

On the east, from between Evens Mill Rd or sometimes even GA124 to I-285.

Its needed a facelift for a long time. It's way outdated.

The Section just outside I-285 was just repaved 2 years ago, during which they didn’t even pick up the tons of trash on the shoulders. A GDOT person on the phone admitted they don’t pick up the trash on I-20 because he said it would be full again a week later, which is irrelevant, if they have to do it everyday then that’s what our population necessitates.