Alanta is full (Shared Tweet / Video) (Atlanta, White: loan, hotels, neighborhoods)
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I lived in Cabbagetown from 1987 to 1993. I lived on the very streets and interacted with original natives who had generations of their families work in that cotton mill. I heard their life experiences straight from their own mouths. I know what it was like for them to live in Atlanta. Despite them being poor and white nobody advocated for them or tried to help them stay in their homes like we have today with various programs for intown minority neighborhoods. They were told to eat a **** sandwich and deal with it. Excuse me if I don't need to take your word for it. I heard it with my own two ears and saw it with my own two eyes.
Did they tell you about when their parents/grandparents striked and ultimately chose to take lower wages just so they would not receive wage increases with their Black counterparts... simply because they didn’t want to be viewed as equal to the black workers. Again, they gladly accepted LESS money just so they would not be considered equal to blacks. Ultimately, they forced the Cotton Mill to fire all its black employees — many of whom also worked there for generations.
Why would they tell you that? Is that something to brag about?
The most frustrating thing about these discussions is that a truly objective person looks at the facts from all sides before formulating a conclusion or opinion. The fact that you are so quick to label something “revisionist history” without even seeing what it is about makes you the uninformed one — not us.
What good comes from a one-sided conversation? You come here making unfounded claims about certain topics, then when challenged, instead of looking into it, you refuse to even consider it and label it “fake”.
Do you see what I’m saying? It’s like you telling me little known details about the Jewish Holocaust, then I reply that it doesn’t matter. Then when you give me all kinds of evidence to support your statements, I say, “I’m not reading that. That’s revisionist history!” At that point, what is the goal of carrying on? Just to hear yourself talk and hope someone who shares your opinions chimes in? If so, that’s on you. But you as a person nor us as a people can really grow that way.
Is it impossible that you just don’t know all the relevant information about what we are talking about? You know everything about all aspects of these topics in Atlanta, Georgia? There are some things that the History Channel doesn’t cover. I could break down slavery in Africa too, but if you can’t handle this little information, you definitely can’t handle that.
You bring up the same often irrelevant points over and over again. Almost verbatim. And 80% of the stuff you say, nobody is disagreeing with. It’s like you try to find any angle to shoehorn in a point about black people and individualism (even when no one is bringing it up). If you cannot handle a healthy discussion/debate while entertaining opposing viewpoints about what you believe to be true, then why keep bringing it up?
But you denied that the construction of said roadways disrupted AA communities and you believe that these were not targeted attempts, this is where you are incorrect. While you are correct that GA-400 through Buckhead as well as I-85 through NE metro ATL did disrupt communities regardless of race and that they are necessary corridors, you are overlooking that there is plenty of historical evidence that politicians have purposefully routed (not planned but ROUTED) certain roadways to segregate communities and the effects of them are LONG withstanding.
You may live in 2021 but you are failing to see the long term effects that has caused these communities from their inability to gain equity, limited mortgage options, limited job options, and income inequality. AA communities have long been in ‘catch-up’ mode while home rehabilitation and property tax debts accrue and wealthier investors (many of whom were ‘not’ targeted by these actions) have targeted their residencies in areas they deem potentially desirable lowballing them and pushing them to suburban nodes which I might add is NOT more economically functional when considering how difficult it is to commute from the suburbs of Atlanta (or anywhere for that matter) to job centers across the metro.
It isn’t as simple as saying “that happened x years ago get over it” those actions had very lasting and catastrophic consequences that trickled down through generations like dominos. It isn’t exclusive to just Atlanta either. This has been an American trend in urban areas toward AA’s
Great post. A person can look at it like Ron all that he wants but what the hell can a person do when the US Government making sure that it discriminatory practices ran smoothly. Racial covenants were very real and did us no favors. People really don't put things together when they see that everyone (on a whole) was broke as hell before The New Deal.
AA's that were middle class could not live in a high rated neighborhood and really overpaid to move into the neighborhood they were in complete with higher interest rates than their European American equivalents. They actually brought more value into the neighborhood but the field was not level.
Cparker73, Equinox63, Bryant3, and Need4Camaro all making great points. No need to lie about these things anymore, we can all be objective about it like these posters.
Your arguments make no sense!! So because the city didn't protect those residents back in the 90s, and got told to "eat a **** sandwich, you yourself acknowledge that this was wrong! Yet today when it's happening again, you claim you can't see a problem with it?
You don't see the hypocrisy? Neighborhoods change. It has been happening in Atlanta since the beginning of time. How about we just let the natural progression of the city happen? Is that too radical of an idea? My point was if this wasn't a crisis back then why is it all the sudden a crisis now? Again, see the hypocrisy? Atlanta has been changing ever since the 1996 Olympics some people have been able to accept that and adapt and others haven't. There is no ownership of the city or any specific neighborhoods people are free to migrate as they wish.
Considering that the median white household's wealth is about $188,000, and the average Black household's wealth is about $24,000, you're failing to address why the wealth gap exists and how that limits the mobility of Black families. While Atlanta is a Mecca for middle and upper income Black professionals, all it takes is a housing crisis or pandemic to wipe out any gains. It's going to take a couple more generations before things stabilize, and all the gaslighting you're doing doesn't help define the problem and come up with solutions.
Lets talk about wealth gaps. What explains the wealth gap between white and Indian households? What explains the wealth gap between black and Indian households? Care to answer that? Here is the problem with "Income Inequality" the most blatant flaw is the fact that income inequality alone is not a measure of socioeconomic mobility. Meaning, we can conceptualize the distance between society’s rich and poor, but it tells us nothing about the ability of society’s poor to become rich or middle class. Income inequality measures are almost always static, omitting how people change and rise up into different income brackets overtime. See, income inequality is not a zero sum game. In the United States we employ a fiat money system and The supply of money available for income is not finite. As demand for money grows, so does the money supply. Jeff Bezos making a billion dollars this year has zero effect on your ability to make a million or billion dollars yourself. Income is not a zero sum game my salary doesn't limit yours or anyone else. Then, there is the problem with how income inequality is actually calculated. It ignores earned income lost to taxes and programs such as Medicare, Medicaid and food stamps, which make up more than 40% of federal spending, along with dozens of state and local programs. Government transfers provide 89% of all resources available to the bottom income quintile of households and more than half of the total resources available to the second quintile. Leaving out taxes and most transfers overstates inequality greatly. A housing crisis or pandemic doesn't just impact one group of people. For example Covid-19 doesn't know (or care) if someone is white, black, etc. As we experienced from 2008 - 2011 housing prices impact everyone. So those assertions are absurd.
Did they tell you about when their parents/grandparents striked and ultimately chose to take lower wages just so they would not receive wage increases with their Black counterparts... simply because they didn’t want to be viewed as equal to the black workers. Again, they gladly accepted LESS money just so they would not be considered equal to blacks. Ultimately, they forced the Cotton Mill to fire all its black employees — many of whom also worked there for generations.
Why would they tell you that? Is that something to brag about?
The most frustrating thing about these discussions is that a truly objective person looks at the facts from all sides before formulating a conclusion or opinion. The fact that you are so quick to label something “revisionist history” without even seeing what it is about makes you the uninformed one — not us.
What good comes from a one-sided conversation? You come here making unfounded claims about certain topics, then when challenged, instead of looking into it, you refuse to even consider it and label it “fake”.
Do you see what I’m saying? It’s like you telling me little known details about the Jewish Holocaust, then I reply that it doesn’t matter. Then when you give me all kinds of evidence to support your statements, I say, “I’m not reading that. That’s revisionist history!” At that point, what is the goal of carrying on? Just to hear yourself talk and hope someone who shares your opinions chimes in? If so, that’s on you. But you as a person nor us as a people can really grow that way.
Is it impossible that you just don’t know all the relevant information about what we are talking about? You know everything about all aspects of these topics in Atlanta, Georgia? There are some things that the History Channel doesn’t cover. I could break down slavery in Africa too, but if you can’t handle this little information, you definitely can’t handle that.
You bring up the same often irrelevant points over and over again. Almost verbatim. And 80% of the stuff you say, nobody is disagreeing with. It’s like you try to find any angle to shoehorn in a point about black people and individualism (even when no one is bringing it up). If you cannot handle a healthy discussion/debate while entertaining opposing viewpoints about what you believe to be true, then why keep bringing it up?
Do you mean how when it was pointed out that no, it just wasn't black neighborhoods in Atlanta who were targeted or had major interstates or highways cut through them it sent people into a tizzy? Because that is how we got to this point in the discussion. That whole narrative like a lot of things posted on here was a lie. It was false. Then, when this is pointed out people start trying to make excuses or minimize the same exact thing that happened to other neighborhoods. It never ends. Goalposts are moved and rationalizations are made to try and spin it. Atlanta has a complicated history I think most people recognize that but the same things that have impacted the black community have also impacted others as well. There are a few people on here that seem to either not want to accept that or refuse to accept that. Lets also remember that despite the history of Atlanta as far as the south goes Atlanta has always been a progressive city for example we did not have some of the issues that Birmingham, Memphis, and New Orleans had. I think that is something to be proud of and I also think it is a reason why Atlanta is in much better shape in basically every metric than those cities.
I'd love to have you sit down with my 97 year old grandmother who is a Holocaust survivor and listen to her tell you how to deal with catastrophic consequences and how to deal with it. You would probably tell her she is 'privileged' and doesn't know what she is talking about or that she wasn't 'targeted'.
What about all the Jewish slaveowners? For such a small percentage of the population they really owned a lot of slaves. Owned most of the slave ships. Hell the secretary of state for the confederates was Jewish and they had him on their $2 bill. It's such an overplayed myth to act like Jewish people had it real rough in America. They've been in power positions since at least slavery, if not way before. I say that to say it isn't a good comparison when looking at Black people who have had the entire system against them until very recently when companies are made to have diversity quotas, etc. Jewish neighborhoods were not targets for eminent domain in the same way Black ones were. They were given reparations, allowed to buy in the nicer neighborhoods, owned the factories and businesses, etc.
As a matter of fact, I'm willing to bet some of the planners who decided to bring these freeways through Black neighborhoods were Jewish themselves. There certaintly weren't any Blacks directing that.
Do you mean how when it was pointed out that no, it just wasn't black neighborhoods in Atlanta who were targeted or had major interstates or highways cut through them it sent people into a tizzy? Because that is how we got to this point in the discussion. That whole narrative like a lot of things posted on here was a lie. It was false. Then, when this is pointed out people start trying to make excuses or minimize the same exact thing that happened to other neighborhoods. It never ends. Goalposts are moved and rationalizations are made to try and spin it. Atlanta has a complicated history I think most people recognize that but the same things that have impacted the black community have also impacted others as well. There are a few people on here that seem to either not want to accept that or refuse to accept that. Lets also remember that despite the history of Atlanta as far as the south goes Atlanta has always been a progressive city for example we did not have some of the issues that Birmingham, Memphis, and New Orleans had. I think that is something to be proud of and I also think it is a reason why Atlanta is in much better shape in basically every metric than those cities.
Sometimes. In this one example, yes. Many posters have conceded this point several times throughout this thread. Did you ever address the compensation piece? Or the fact that the NE Intown neighborhoods were able to prevent it while the black communities had no option? But no need to answer these questions. I would prefer that you tackle the one below instead.
Can you tell us the ways that Jim Crow and other subsequent widespread segregationist and openly racist laws, policies, and practices affected other groups in Atlanta to the extent that it affected Black Atlantans?
If anything, the fact that Black Atlantans have made it this far really speaks to the tenacity of the Black Atlantans who helped make the city what it is today. Before you say, "but what about the white people?" White people have done great things as well. But of course, most didn't have the impediments that came with being black in the American South up until the not-too-distant past. And even the whites that allied with causes in support of Black people faced a monumental and deeply entrenched openly racist power structure.
And again, before you mention welfare, handouts, or wealth-distribution. I'm not talking about any of that. In fact, I'm not a proponent of any of that (yet you keep coming back to it like we all think the same). Truthfully, you could even consider me a gentrifier, so I'm not necessarily anti-gentrification. But when it comes to reasons why blacks in Atlanta, Georgia on the whole, have not advanced as far as white people, the reasons are numerous and varied. I think people are in a "tizzy" because you don't seem to even acknowledge that they exist when a mountain of tangible evidence says otherwise.
...and for the record, your comment about the wealth gap between Indian Americans and African Americans has been addressed twice by me and at least one other poster -- I believe in an entirely different thread. Yet you keep asking the same question over and over again. Most Americans do not hold the same negative stereotypes about Indian or Asian Americans as they do about Black Americans. All the many points that people have made in this thread about things that affected the wealth gap between blacks and whites did not happen to Asian and Indian American immigrants on the whole (especially not in Atlanta). The laws and policies set forth that explicitly mentioned race almost only referred to black and white and how they should relate to each other.
If you want, I can tell you about the evolution of Chinese and Jewish communities in Atlanta. Like I mentioned before, I have studied these things. Most of us are educated people on here, so it's a little condescending for you come on here acting like we have no idea what we are talking about...
Last edited by equinox63; 03-05-2021 at 09:24 AM..
Whataboutism, also known as whataboutery, is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument.
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