Wow - New Lenox Mall Requirement (Atlanta, White: lease, amusement park, school)

[Born 2 Roll]

Frankly, I’m somewhat surprised that it took this long for Lenox to bar unaccompanied minors from the premises.

Not all teenagers are troublemakers, but many (though not all) of the people causing problems at the mall as of late have been teenagers.

Upon seeing the news of this new policy barring unaccompanied minors from being on the property after 3pm, my mind goes back to the incident earlier this year where two 15-year-olds (reportedly from Chicago) shot and almost killed a security guard supposedly during an attempted robbery of the Nike store inside of the mall.

[Ocean Flames]

Originally Posted by T Block

The malls are for anyone who wants to shop. Not buying anything doesn't make someone a public nuisance. People sometimes plan their purchases for a future time. Now loitering can be a public nuisance and can be charged as a misdemeanor after one warning. But thoughtful shopping is not loitering. A person could buy a package of underwear, for instance, at Macy's. Or an umbrella. Or a wallet.

The children are practical and go to the food court. Discrimination against children is age discrimination. There is no law about the age of unaccompanied children. MARTA charges children fares if they are taller than 46". Presumably if they are shorter than 46" then they must be accompanied.

As I said before, I think a curfew mentality could be applied to children if there were court rulings. Something like no unaccompanied children after 7 PM.

The problem is the 3 PM rule. Before 3 PM the children could be investigated for skipping school. Then after 3 PM they are not allowed. There is a fundamental deception.

They’re not banning minors from the mall. They can still visit at anytime. However, at certain times they must be accompanied by an adult. I think claiming age discrimination is a stretch here. As have been noted, numerous establishments throughout the metro area have similar guidelines.

[MichiganderTexan]

Originally Posted by aslowdodge

Where did you get this idea? Please cite your source.
As far as I know malls were not made for teenagers. Over time teenagers used it as a place to hang out.
I wonder how many of these teenagers actually spend and how much.
How many security guards need to be hired? Why when it’s easier to just keep them out and probably not a huge revenue cut. Maybe a revenue jump as more people come back to the mall because they no longer get harassed or robbed. As far as hiring people specifically trained , again why! Easier just to limit teen hours. I’m sure a lot of parents just drop teens off with no intention of them spending, but just to keep them occupied while they go elsewhere.

+1 I don't agree with the premise that malls were made for teenagers especially an upscale mall. Teenagers bombarding a mall is a sign of its decline. Malls were actually made for people to shop in believe it or not, and a lot of malls are dying but Lennox is one of the malls in the area with exclusive upscale scores in addition to Phipps and Shops of Buckhead.

[beach43ofus]

Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll

Frankly, I’m somewhat surprised that it took this long for Lenox to bar unaccompanied minors from the premises.

Not all teenagers are troublemakers, but many (though not all) of the people causing problems at the mall as of late have been teenagers.

Upon seeing the news of this new policy barring unaccompanied minors from being on the property after 3pm, my mind goes back to the incident earlier this year where two 15-year-olds (reportedly from Chicago) shot and almost killed a security guard supposedly during an attempted robbery of the Nike store inside of the mall.

^^^Great post, and I totally agree with how you've worded it.

This was long overdue...more than a decade overdue imho.

A shopping mall is a private enterprise, like a country club, or restaurant is, & they can decide their own policies (so long as they are not illegal). If you don't like their policies, take your business elsewhere.

It's a shame that Buckhead, and these malls have become such scary places...used to be so nice.

I won't go to Lennox or Phipps after 3PM anymore because of the gangs & criminal element there looking for trouble. I moved away from ATL recently, but my Son's still there, so I visit often, & my company still has a lot of business there; which brings me back.

Our college-aged son, & his friends, will not go to Lennox, or Phipps after ~3PM either.

I also think the metal detectors were at least a decade overdue.

My wife was a crime victim at one of these Malls, so that is why I take such a tough stance.

[aslowdodge]

Part of the problem is that this has been going on for a while and a lot of damage has been done. It doesn’t help that there are people that put all the responsibility on the mall to cater to the trouble makers and only in a certain way. Their view is the guilty have more rights than the non guilty.

[T Block]

It's being implied that all unaccompanied children entering the mall are inclined to criminal activity. That's a purge mentality, close to totalitarianism, instead of a judicious mentality as close to democratic values.

Now the state allows 16 year-olds to drive a car on public roads without being accompanied but the mall wants to restrict their mall entry.

Basically, the food court is a public draw and the mall is responsible for the result. The mall should be expected to have sufficient security.

I will suggest a 5 PM mall curfew for those younger than 16 years-old who are not accompanied by an adult.

I don't know what the minimum age is for unaccompanied children in public. Possibly, 7 year-olds can buy items in a convenience store in their own neighborhood. Well, what is the minimum age for unaccompanied children on MARTA ?

[Atlanta-Native]

Originally Posted by T Block

It's being implied that all unaccompanied children entering the mall are inclined to criminal activity. That's a purge mentality, close to totalitarianism, instead of a judicious mentality as close to democratic values.

Now the state allows 16 year-olds to drive a car on public roads without being accompanied but the mall wants to restrict their mall entry.

Basically, the food court is a public draw and the mall is responsible for the result. The mall should be expected to have sufficient security.

I will suggest a 5 PM mall curfew for those younger than 16 years-old who are not accompanied by an adult.

The mall shouldn't have to deal with a bunch of punks acting up. Maybe if the parents are with them, they'll be less likely to cause problems. 3:00 seems to be reasonable.

[architect77]

Originally Posted by MattCW

Well, it's not like simon mall leadership has ever been known for their intelligence.

Thousands of shoppers come from surrounding states every weekend to Lenox.

One early Saturday morning I saw every entrance's trash receptacles outside full and overflowing at the start of the weekend, their busiest time.

The men's room midway in the mall has always stunk and is disgustingly filthy and the parking lots are always scattered with trash.

You'd think they would understand that offering a restroom that was reasonably clean would matter to customers, something they would appreciate and remember. The ones down in the food court are ok.

If that meant paying an employee more money to keep that midway restroom clean and odor free, or letting them be rewarded with a tip jar for better conditions then do whatever it takes to provide a better experience for shoppers.

The parking deck by Bloomingdales needs powerwashing and painting, gum removed from the store entrances, and the bloomingdales sign visible from GA400 has had half the letters not lit at night for 4 years, 3 holiday shopping seasons with burned out exterior signage.

I tried to contact Simon on their website for over 3 years and the after typing all of this in their comment submittal, upon hitting send it gave an error message year after year.

I finally mailed them all of my suggestions and someone locally called me.

All of this at the nicest mall in the Southeast.

[AnsleyPark]

Originally Posted by T Block

The malls are for anyone who wants to shop. Not buying anything doesn't make someone a public nuisance. People sometimes plan their purchases for a future time. Now loitering can be a public nuisance and can be charged as a misdemeanor after one warning. But thoughtful shopping is not loitering. A person could buy a package of underwear, for instance, at Macy's. Or an umbrella. Or a wallet.

The children are practical and go to the food court. Discrimination against children is age discrimination. There is no law about the age of unaccompanied children. MARTA charges children fares if they are taller than 46". Presumably if they are shorter than 46" then they must be accompanied.

As I said before, I think a curfew mentality could be applied to children if there were court rulings. Something like no unaccompanied children after 7 PM.

The problem is the 3 PM rule. Before 3 PM the children could be investigated for skipping school. Then after 3 PM they are not allowed. There is a fundamental deception.

T Block, I am sorry, but your rendition is not how the anti-discrimination laws work. Age discrimination involves older workers, not teenagers. The mall is not legally restricted here and it's regulations are completely within what the law allows.

[T Block]

It's a well established fundamental that children require supervision.

But children, certainly by the age of 12, have historically gone to malls, stores, and movie theaters as unaccompanied by adults.

To take mall access away from children could result in civil court cases.

And for instance the state allows unaccompanied children to drive cars on public roads at 16 years-old.

The mall might be okay to restrict all minors but I just don't see their authority. Merchants are regulated by the democracy and can't just do anything they want.

Now I suggest a mall curfew of 5 PM for those younger than 16 years-old and not accompanied by an adult. The attempt at significant facilitation is not likely a discrimination but more of a supervision. Also, I suppose that I have arrived at a minimum age of 12 years-old.

The 3 PM rule is deceptive. It could instead say that no unaccompanied minors are allowed in the mall Monday through Friday during the school year. But I don't how the deception would be explained in a court case.