Do you all think the Beltline light rail line will happen? (Atlanta: fit in, 2013)

[aries4118]

Originally Posted by wlouisharris2000

I really hope it doesn't happen. It seems like it is going to really screw up the Eastside Beltline. I think they should try to put in a dedicate bike lane instead.

https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/g...ters-fire-back

Beltline Rail Now!
https://beltlinerailnow.com/

[aries4118]

Originally Posted by aries4118

Beltline Rail Now!
https://beltlinerailnow.com/

Is There Room For Rail On The Beltline?
https://beltlinerailnow.com/faq-1/20...tional-transit

[aries4118]

Originally Posted by DoubleZ OTP

...



I personally feel that "it will ruin the character" is a usually a poor argument against change -- including in this case with the Beltline Eastside Trail. I'm not convinced that whatever character exists will be ruined.

In fact, I'll argue that the character of this mile-long stretch of the Beltline has already changed, and that this streetcar service will better match the existing (new) character of this area than the current state of the transit right-of-way. In the last 5 years or so, this area has transformed from a more park-like, quirky, medium-density, "in progress" area into more of a modern, futuristic, high-density, fully-developed, busy urban corridor, and I think a streetcar is a better fit for that than the do-nothing alternative.

I'm not convinced that all of the space will be lost for vendors, impromptu performances, scooter parking, benches, people hanging out and talking, etc., all of which make the Beltline a special place. No space will be lost on the east side of the trail. And though the types of activities mentioned here will be forced to become less spontaneous and more funneled into certain spaces, that might not necessarily be a bad thing for this particular segment of the trail.



Anyway, while I am generally in favor of the streetcar extension and the current proposal (for many reasons), I would personally like to see a few changes -- and to the Atlanta Streetcar itself -- before any extension of the streetcar to Ponce City Market:

1. I'd greatly prefer grass tracks instead of concrete tracks, for many reasons. Yes, grass is more expensive to maintain, but surely the Beltline, the city, and the surrounding neighborhoods can afford it. I feel that something like this (St. Charles Ave in New Orleans) is far better than the impervious concrete tracks currently proposed.

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^^^
Good stuff here.


More...

Is There Room For Rail On The Beltline?
https://beltlinerailnow.com/faq-1/20...tional-transit

[Datdudebrah]

Originally Posted by 2Easy

Are you sure about all that? It's currently listed as a "Future Project" in the latest "More MARTA" plan. This plan revised the 2019 plan to address significant budgeting shortfalls. That's not unique to MARTA. Every agency has had to reevaluate timelines due to inflation and related cost increases.

https://www.itsmarta.com/uploadedfil...esentation.pdf

They approved the contract for final design on Friday and intend to start construction in 2025 and complete in 2028. I get the skepticism but this one is a done deal. Also the reports of a shortfall are a little misleading, but this thread isn't about that.

[cranberrysaus]

"Ruining the character" of the Beltline is the same side of the coin as the argument suburbanites have used to block transit expansion.

[wlouisharris2000]

I have to read the "is there room for rail on the Beltline." Yes, it was the original idea, but what people is this going serve? The transit between Old 4th ward and Piedmont park is all pedestrian. If you want to get between the 2 locations quickly you can ride a bike or rent an electric scooter. Who is really going to ride this rail line? The businesses around the Beltline are a huge source of tax revenue for the city and it seems disrupting it and the character aren't a good idea.

[DoubleZ OTP]

Originally Posted by wlouisharris2000

I have to read the "is there room for rail on the Beltline." Yes, it was the original idea, but what people is this going serve? The transit between Old 4th ward and Piedmont park is all pedestrian. If you want to get between the 2 locations quickly you can ride a bike or rent an electric scooter. Who is really going to ride this rail line? The businesses around the Beltline are a huge source of tax revenue for the city and it seems disrupting it and the character aren't a good idea.

Do note that the underlined has nothing to do with the streetcar extension (and vice versa) as this streetcar extension will not connect Old 4th Ward to Piedmont Park/Midtown.

Anyway, I see the streetcar service being useful for a few key groups:

1. Tourists. The Beltline Eastside Trail (and some of its destinations such as Ponce City Market) is now something of a tourist destination itself. Should this streetcar extension be built, it would link the Centennial Olympic Park area (including the Aquarium, World of Coke, Center for Civil Rights, College Football Hall of Fame, etc.) and the King Center/Historic Sweet Auburn to the Beltline and Ponce City Market. Convention tourism is also significant in Downtown, and I could see the streetcar being useful for conventioneers as well. Importantly, Atlanta's hotel district is adjacent to Centennial Olympic Park and is also served by the existing streetcar; a small but significant portion of the hotel guests may not have cars.

2. Low-wage service industry workers who cannot afford to reside near the Beltline despite working near it. The Beltline Eastside Trail is a very jobs-rich area with robust job growth. The particular stretch of the Beltline Eastside Trail which this streetcar extension would serve is quickly becoming the most expensive area of the city for renters. Most of the service-industry folks working in the 100+ restaurants, bars, and shops lining the Beltline Eastside Trail (most of whom earn between $15 and $22.50 hourly) cannot afford to live near their workplaces, even with roommates. As a result, they must commute from elsewhere. A significant chunk of this group is carless, and usually not by choice. Currently, MARTA bus service to the Beltline Eastside Trail is very poor: the 2 bus serves the Beltline once every 30 minutes, the 102 bus serves the Beltline once every 30 minutes, the 816 bus serves the Beltline once every 45 minutes, and the 899 bus serves the Beltline once every 60 minutes. 30 to 60 minutes is too infrequent to be useful or reliable, and a streetcar with likely service every 15 minutes will be a major upgrade for those reliant on MARTA to get to work.

3. Georgia State University students. About 5,000 GSU students reside on-campus or near-campus in Downtown, and perhaps nearly 1/3 of them (~1,500) do not have vehicles. International students in particular are very unlikely to have cars. Some of these students do not have meal plans, and as there's no real grocery store in Downtown, it is currently difficult for students without cars to obtain groceries. A streetcar service which travels directly from the dorms/student apartments to the front entrance of Kroger in about 20 minutes will be very useful for this subgroup in particular. More generally, it will provide all GSU students with a more straightforward route to access the Beltline for general use.

4. Downtown residents (full-time). Contrary to popular belief, many people live in Downtown. The 2020 Census counted about 10,000 people living in the area north/east of the railroad and south/west of 75/85 and Ivan Allen Jr. Blvd, which I would consider to be the service area for the existing streetcar. Roughly half (5,000 or so) are permanent residents, and that number is set to increase a bit in the coming years. Perhaps between 10 and 20 percent (500 to 1,000) of these residents are carless. No, that's not a big number, but I can see the streetcar being very useful for this group.

5. Beltline Eastside Trail residents who travel to Downtown for events, such as Atlanta United games, Falcons games, Hawks games, and so on. This also includes Beltline Eastside Trail residents who use MARTA to travel to the Airport. This one doesn't need much explanation.

6. Beltline Eastside Trail residents who work in Downtown offices. While most will continue to drive, a small share will utilize the streetcar if it's reliable enough.

7. The homeless, mentally-ill, and drug-addicted. I must acknowledge this, as I'm fairly certain that this is secretly (or in some cases, openly) the number-one concern of many streetcar extension opponents. We all know that the existing streetcar serves an area with a lot of unsavory individuals, and that the existing streetcar has been labeled a "homeless circulator". It is inevitable that some of these individuals will make their way towards Ponce City Market and Krog Street Market. However, that is no excuse to not build this transit line, as the enforcement of rules, regulations, and social norms is a separate issue which can be addressed separately with proper enforcement; if Centennial Olympic Park, Atlantic Station, most of Midtown, and other semi-public places can do this, then so can The Beltline and MARTA. Besides, in such a busy area, these individuals will feel less comfortable begging, littering, and harassing taxpayers; part of the reason why Downtown and Sweet Auburn are fair game for bad behavior is because of the lack of foot traffic.

[wlouisharris2000]

Yah, I guess it's a done deal for better or worse. We'll have to see if it disrupts the foot traffic and aesthetics down there. If it does, a lot of businesses will be impacted. There were already some restaurants that closed after the pandemic. It just doesn't seem like there is enough room.

[Gulch]

Originally Posted by wlouisharris2000

It just doesn't seem like there is enough room.

The room exists.

[primaltech]

It really aggravates me that they can't do a Krog St infill station, and have an all-Beltline MARTA light rail line (not just a streetcar), that connects/integrates directly with that station and Lindbergh.

Having to go all the way from Downtown, via 1-lane Auburn Ave shared with cars, via that slow streetcar ride, just to get up to PCM which is on North Avenue, is silly, when there's a North Avenue MARTA station, not much more than a mile away, and the Beltline corridor crosses right under the Blue/Green lines at Hulsey.