Why does Atlanta get a bum rap on "sprawl?" (Decatur: townhouse, construction)

[reet4587]

Originally Posted by LovinDecatur

This doesn't really answer my question. In my mind's eye, I'm traveling up Peachtree through Downtown, Midtown and Buckhead, and I'm trying to identify areas that you describe as 'parking lots, buildings with blank walls with no street interaction, or unusable open space'. Aside from SoNo (which is dreadful, but could be fixed), I can't think of any. Please to enlighten.

I have something to add to this conversation -- we live a bit south of Brookwood and end up driving, walking or taking the Peach Bus north on Peachtree through this south Buckhead area often for groceries and stuff.

I've always been a little dismayed by how much suburban-style, pedestrian-unfriendly development there is right off of Peachtree Rd in south Buckhead. There are many shopping centers that are set off from the road behind surface parking lots that are dangerous to walk through for pedestrians. The worst include the one behind Houstons and the one at Peachtree Battle with the Publix.

Even up in central Buckhead there's the massive shopping center, also with a Publix, and a Barnes and Noble. Try walking around that beast after getting off the Peach Bus. It isn't pleasant. And that's really the crux of my criticism of this area -- that the pedestrian experience here is unsafe and unpleasant. Too much so for a spot in the middle of Atlanta.

There are some nice newer buildings that are easy to reach for pedestrians, though, so the area is certainly not devoid of a proper urban landscape (especially with the tall buildings above Holeman & Finch and Varrasanos -- I judge everything by it's location near a restaurant, btw ).

Nonetheless, the little urban pockets are separated by too much that is not urban and not easy to walk through. Really, all you have to do is notice the low amount of pedestrian activity in south Buckhead to tell that the area as a whole, despite positive improvements in the urban landscape in the last few years, is not a great place for pedestrians and leans too heavily towards car-dependent movement for the center of a large city.

[DeaconJ]

Originally Posted by reet4587

I have something to add to this conversation -- we live a bit south of Brookwood and end up driving, walking or taking the Peach Bus north on Peachtree through this south Buckhead area often for groceries and stuff.

I've always been a little dismayed by how much suburban-style, pedestrian-unfriendly development there is right off of Peachtree Rd in south Buckhead. There are many shopping centers that are set off from the road behind surface parking lots that are dangerous to walk through for pedestrians. The worst include the one behind Houstons and the one at Peachtree Battle with the Publix.

Even up in central Buckhead there's the massive shopping center, also with a Publix, and a Barnes and Noble. Try walking around that beast after getting off the Peach Bus. It isn't pleasant. And that's really the crux of my criticism of this area -- that the pedestrian experience here is unsafe and unpleasant. Too much so for a spot in the middle of Atlanta.

There are some nice newer buildings that are easy to reach for pedestrians, though, so the area is certainly not devoid of a proper urban landscape (especially with the tall buildings above Holeman & Finch and Varrasanos -- I judge everything by it's location near a restaurant, btw ).

Nonetheless, the little urban pockets are separated by too much that is not urban and not easy to walk through. Really, all you have to do is notice the low amount of pedestrian activity in south Buckhead to tell that the area as a whole, despite positive improvements in the urban landscape in the last few years, is not a great place for pedestrians and leans too heavily towards car-dependent movement for the center of a large city.

I've got news for you...Buckhead is NOT "the middle of Atlanta" nor is it the "center of a large city" by any means. It's just about as far north as you can get and still be in the city.

Go to the edge of just about ANY city and you'll find it to be less pedestrian friendly than the more centrally located areas. I guarantee it.

[Iconographer]

Originally Posted by reet4587

I have something to add to this conversation -- we live a bit south of Brookwood and end up driving, walking or taking the Peach Bus north on Peachtree through this south Buckhead area often for groceries and stuff.

I've always been a little dismayed by how much suburban-style, pedestrian-unfriendly development there is right off of Peachtree Rd in south Buckhead. There are many shopping centers that are set off from the road behind surface parking lots that are dangerous to walk through for pedestrians. The worst include the one behind Houstons and the one at Peachtree Battle with the Publix.

Even up in central Buckhead there's the massive shopping center, also with a Publix, and a Barnes and Noble. Try walking around that beast after getting off the Peach Bus. It isn't pleasant. And that's really the crux of my criticism of this area -- that the pedestrian experience here is unsafe and unpleasant. Too much so for a spot in the middle of Atlanta.

There are some nice newer buildings that are easy to reach for pedestrians, though, so the area is certainly not devoid of a proper urban landscape (especially with the tall buildings above Holeman & Finch and Varrasanos -- I judge everything by it's location near a restaurant, btw ).

Nonetheless, the little urban pockets are separated by too much that is not urban and not easy to walk through. Really, all you have to do is notice the low amount of pedestrian activity in south Buckhead to tell that the area as a whole, despite positive improvements in the urban landscape in the last few years, is not a great place for pedestrians and leans too heavily towards car-dependent movement for the center of a large city.

Reet, I do agree that developers missed the boat (and the city by allowing it) when they created shopping centers like the Peach in the center of Buckhead. How hard would it have been to locate the parking in the rear and put the shops on the street a la Champs Elysees? They did a better job with the shopping center at Brookwood Place.

[DeaconJ]

Originally Posted by LovinDecatur

Reet, I do agree that developers missed the boat (and the city by allowing it) when they created shopping centers like the Peach in the center of Buckhead. How hard would it have been to locate the parking in the rear and put the shops on the street a la Champs Elysees? They did a better job with the shopping center at Brookwood Place.

Those shopping centers are really just a product of the time period...developers weren't exactly thinking about pedestrians, but more about making them as convenient as possible for vehicle traffic. Times have changed a lot since then, and you really don't see many new developments of that same design anymore.

[Iconographer]

Originally Posted by DeaconJ

Those shopping centers are really just a product of the time period...developers weren't exactly thinking about pedestrians, but more about making them as convenient as possible for vehicle traffic. Times have changed a lot since then, and you really don't see many new developments of that same design anymore.

Agreed. The Peach went in about 1993, I think..."New Urbanism" wasn't really in the Zeitgeist yet.

[reet4587]

Originally Posted by LovinDecatur

Reet, I do agree that developers missed the boat (and the city by allowing it) when they created shopping centers like the Peach in the center of Buckhead. How hard would it have been to locate the parking in the rear and put the shops on the street a la Champs Elysees? They did a better job with the shopping center at Brookwood Place.

Very true -- and my main goal is finding an area to live where my family can go for walks and approach the stores and restaurants and such that we want to go to from the road as pedestrians. And to be able to do so safely.

There have been some great improvements in this area recently as with the new Trader Joes in Buckhead that is easily approachable by foot from the road (unlike the one in the Midtown Promenade, frustratingly).

[DeaconJ]

Originally Posted by LovinDecatur

Agreed. The Peach went in about 1993, I think..."New Urbanism" wasn't really in the Zeitgeist yet.

Even though I responded to your post, I didn't really mean for that response to be directed to you...of course, I knew that you were aware of what I said.

[J2rescue]

Originally Posted by neil0311

I know most people probably disagree with me, but I say "who cares?" what people say? People here care much more what others say and think about the area than many areas.

Anecdote from this Friday night....this happened to me at SEA-TAC airport in Seattle as I was waiting for a flight to Atlanta. A Canadian who lives in Vancouver, BC and I struck up a conversation waiting for the flight. His perception of Atlanta was that it was a great place but his concern was the crime. He was very scared about staying in a hotel downtown near the CNN Center. To me, that's the real problem that Atlanta should be laser focused on....crime and panhandling....not how many buildings per square foot do you need to be considered a "real city."

I am not all concerned with perception either but I am concerned with the reality. Pretending Atlanta is urban from Downtown to Buckhead is just as much a waste of time as pretending crime is not an issue. And improving on either problem has nothing to do with the other so I don't get the point.

[noah]

No doubt Buckhead is very car dependent when compared to Midtown which is much more walkable

[neil0311]

Originally Posted by J2rescue

I am not all concerned with perception either but I am concerned with the reality. Pretending Atlanta is urban from Downtown to Buckhead is just as much a waste of time as pretending crime is not an issue. And improving on either problem has nothing to do with the other so I don't get the point.

Why do you have to "pretend" anything? Why is it important that it be "urban" or confirm to some preconceived definition of what a "real city" should be? I have asked this question repeatedly and no one seems to have a good answer. It always seems to boil down to Atlanta being just like "city X" or conforming to some political or social movement's ideal construction of a city. Atlanta is Atlanta.

I don't know why people here in particular are so hung up on "density" and all these buzzwords that mean little, except to those who fancy themselves as some kind of guardian of urbanism. Maybe it's because I've lived in the most urban setting on earth that I don't see it as such a positive thing. To each his own.