Forsyth county ranked second most conservative county in US (Decatur: lawyers, home)

[RoslynHolcomb]

"They" are anonymous.

Oh...okay. And as long as they remain anonymous we can keep believing this Horatia Alger myth that it's possible to go from poverty to wealth in this country without a three-point shot. Neat trick that when the majority of the wealth is concentrated in the hands of very few. Next.

[Iconographer]

Originally Posted by jlcalle

Huh? You think I want the hassel of their lives.. Lol not me.

Now, I only point out to you that two guys who are billionares and were veteran managers who started what became a household name may not be credit worthy sources of starting a business today. It has changed entirely since they were starting out. Which again they were already deep in the business as opposed to many people now.

I can't even decipher what you're trying to say here.

[RoslynHolcomb]

Originally Posted by LovinDecatur

I can't even decipher what you're trying to say here.

Yeah, I couldn't make heads or tails of it either. Maybe he's a non-native English speaker.

[tigers84]

Originally Posted by RoslynHolcomb

Oh...okay. And as long as they remain anonymous we can keep believing this Horatia Alger myth that it's possible to go from poverty to wealth in this country without a three-point shot. Neat trick that when the majority of the wealth is concentrated in the hands of very few. Next.

Really? Unless I name names then successful doctors and lawyers from poor backgrounds dont exist? President Obama doesnt qualify either, I guess....

Sounds like you just want an excuse to redistribute all the wealth. Dont count on that going down with another civil war.

[noah]

Depends what you define as wealthy. If you are talking somewhere between $2 million - $7 million it is true, its possible. If you invest $500/month from age 30 to age 65 you would have $1.14 million at age 65 assuming a conservative 8% return. A large portion of the population (not just six figure earners) can do that. Start earlier at age 25 and it comes to $1.7 million at age 65.

They are anonymous of course but books like the millionaire next door have studied hundreds of them to see who they really are so its documented. Many apparently don't believe there are rich people who don't act like those on TV flashing their wealth everywhere.

Originally Posted by RoslynHolcomb

Oh...okay. And as long as they remain anonymous we can keep believing this Horatia Alger myth that it's possible to go from poverty to wealth in this country without a three-point shot.

[RoslynHolcomb]

I'm not sure that I would consider most doctors and especially not attorneys wealthy. From what I've observed, most of those folks work for their money. Wealthy means your money works for you. Obviously there are some doctors/lawyers that fall in that category, but the overwhelming majority do not.

I'm not advocating wealth redistribution. I think the health care debate was enough to show the world just how unlikely that is to occur. I'm advocating that we get real with the truth that the Horatio Alger myth ie that it's possible to go from poverty to wealth in this country is just that, a myth. Stop telling people that if they're not wealthy it's because they don't work hard, or are spending their money on conspicuous consumption. The fact is, that if you're not born in the middle class it's darned near impossible to become middle class. And if you're born poor in all likelihood you're going to die that way as well. Those are the facts, and I have no beef with them. I do have a problem with the myths that we like to perpetuate so that we can sleep at night. The wealthy work no harder than the poor, indeed many of them work a lot less, and many inherited their wealth. It's not the wealth disparity that turns my stomach so much as the lying.

Originally Posted by tigers84

Really? Unless I name names then successful doctors and lawyers from poor backgrounds dont exist? President Obama doesnt qualify either, I guess....

Sounds like you just want an excuse to redistribute all the wealth. Dont count on that going down with another civil war.

[noah]

Well I was born poor, grew up on food stamps at times etc and consider myself to do pretty good now, own a home and a few rentals, have a good start on a retirement account, and am able to save a good % each month. I may never be rich by some standards but do not look at myself as poor in any way nor does the government. I know many others who make much more then me that came from poor childhoods as well.

If I had a few car payments and other loans maybe I would feel poor.

Originally Posted by RoslynHolcomb

The fact is, that if you're not born in the middle class it's darned near impossible to become middle class. And if you're born poor in all likelihood you're going to die that way as well. Those are the facts, and I have no beef with them.

[RoslynHolcomb]

Are you wealthy, and do you know anyone who was born similarly circumstanced who is? IMO if you can't go without a paycheck ie miss a few and you'd be in big trouble then no, you're not wealthy. To me, you sound pretty typical. I too was born poor, never on food stamps, but definitely not middle class. I don't consider myself poor either, but certainly can't live without a paycheck. You seem to have a rather smug attitude as though the fact that you don't have a car note or loans somehow make you unique. In my neck of the woods it makes you TYPICAL. The only loan I have is the one for my house. We never buy new vehicles, and only get one when one dies. We lived quite comfortably for a long time with one car and were hoping to move to a city with mass transit so we wouldn't even need that. We live comfortably below our means, bought a great deal less house than we could afford. Only eat meat a few days a week. I haven't bought a new outfit since before my son was born. Most of his clothes come from big box stores, except the ones he get that are handed down from relatives. We tithe ourselves 10% off the top and then put another 10% into our emergency fund. We guard our 401k as though it were our lives (at least what's left of it.)

That's not unique, that's just common sense. Even so, we're not smug and foolish enough to believe that any of these smart money moves insulate us from economic calamity. We've been there before and we could well be there again, despite all our hard work and careful fiscal management. The fact of the matter is books like The Millionaire Next Door is selling a bill of goods, but it feels good so we buy into it. The Horatio Alger myth keeps us believing that hard work automatically results in wealth and prosperity. Sure you can invest for 20 years and have a million afterwards to retire with, at least you can if the stock market doesn't crash and take all your money with it. Then what?

Originally Posted by noah

Well I was born poor, grew up on food stamps at times etc and consider myself to do pretty good now, own a home and a few rentals, have a good start on a retirement account, and am able to save a good % each month. I may never be rich by some standards but do not look at myself as poor in any way nor does the government. I know many others who make much more then me that came from poor childhoods as well.

If I had a few car payments and other loans maybe I would feel poor.

[Iconographer]

Originally Posted by RoslynHolcomb

I'm advocating that we get real with the truth that the Horatio Alger myth ie that it's possible to go from poverty to wealth in this country is just that, a myth. Stop telling people that if they're not wealthy it's because they don't work hard, or are spending their money on conspicuous consumption. The fact is, that if you're not born in the middle class it's darned near impossible to become middle class. And if you're born poor in all likelihood you're going to die that way as well.

And yet many new Americans, particularly those in the Asian communities, seem to disprove this assertion every day. The average Indian family arriving in the U.S. reaches affluence by the second generation. If poor Americans are indeed in a hole that they can't climb out of, I think we need to take a closer look at the reason why.
I would cite the example of my in-laws, Iranian nationals that fled the country after the fall of the Pahlavi regime in 1979 (my DH was already here attending Stanford). Although affluent in Iran, they arrived here virtually penniless. Despite this desperate situation, they had managed to reach financial security once again by the early 90's. How was this possible given the scenario that you cite above?
I would assert that it is because although they were poor, they had the tools and skills to remake themselves...not to mention the desire and drive to do so. It would seem that the American education system, combined with a lack of family unity and support, is the weak link and that is where the failure lies.

[Shizzles]

It's obvious that it's a heck of alot easier to become extrodinarily successful when you're already at a comfortable position. I disagree with the notion that we have a right to take from others success to satisfy some sense of "justice" which is really sugarcoated envy.

Having said that, it's clear that government and big buisness have been in collusion for a very long time. The best thing for people in poverty would be to have access to the financial knowledge the rich recieve in order to make better, more prudent fiscal decisons. A true "economic stimulus" would be to underwrite more loans to small buisnesses and startups who can capitalize on undercutting the high prices the big guys have fostered on us.