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We'll, being that I've actually had one for almost the last nine years, I will tell you that I won't spend anywhere near 250K on him by his 18th birthday and we are just about half way there. I don't feel like we scrimp, we just don't indulge and know how to say "no" to our son.
I know lots of families here in Austin that are making due with a one income. We started homeschooling our kid last year and as a result now associate with many other homeschooling families - typically those families are relying on one income and while some have incomes that meet the six figure mark, many others don't and they still manage to survive. If a family doesn't get caught up in "only the best for junior!" they won't be racking up a quarter of million in expenses by the time he's 18. Nor will they be raising an entitled child (as an added bonus for the rest of society!)
But I guess we are really taking this off topic, so I will climb down from my soapbox now.
"Cutting costs/scrimping" on children is an oxymoron of sorts...One certainly wants to be reasonable with expenses, but quality anything, short of doing it all yourself, costs quite a bit...per anything to do with giving kids all you can possibly provide, cutting costs is not the GOAL....not at all...the goal is to provide the best combination of love/personal attention AND the things that one must pay for to provide the same for the best upbringing possible....home schooling is a personal option done out of love, not cutting costs..actually, quite a frill for most parents, as in 80% of two-parent families with children over 3 both spouses work full or part time, mostly full time....the ability to homeschool is predicated on the blessing of a large living-wage income, by one spouse.....
The point, if there is one here, is not any specific number here....250K, 400K, 700K, whatever, the cost of raising a child to adulthood and paying for a 4 year college is staggering...college costs are so high now, the costs of the same could be about a third/half of what one spent period on the child up to 18 altogether....add several children 2-3 or so, and do the math....living in an upscale area, regardless of whether one would have "moved there anyway" are not exactly cheap as well, especially the real estate taxes....Jenn, would you like to mention what you pay in real estate taxes in your upscale Austin area? I would presume at least 5-6K a year..add all other child related expenses,and, even if one cuts back, still you are spending a ton...can't cut back on RE taxes or mortgage payments in an upscale area....
Again, if one TRULY was going to cut back, first one would move out of the prestigious area, with the prestigious school district you are not using but ARE paying for, and move to a far less expensive area in Austin's outskirts(exurban)....then you would recycle as much as possible, and use as little gas(driving) as possible(carbon footprint)....along with the homeschooling, you would provide most of the entertainment for your children yourself, as it was once done, before kids became practically born with Ipods in their ears, a playstation 3 in the left hand, and a cell phone in the right.....no electronica, or as little as possble, without the worrying as to handicapping the children per competing in a high-tech world either, as the children raised this way will be wise anough and resourceful enough to survive outside of the rat race themselves, and contimue the circle of home schooling/resourceful, frugal living ad infinitum....
That last paragraph, if you have not noticed, is absurd....we cannot handicap children from technology if they are to compete on an even footing with their peers....even homeschooling needs to partake of much technology, including much of the web/printers/etc....my last post, per that there is no avoiding the huge cost of raising children short of living in a commune in the Sierras, stands here...and that is a beautiful thing in its own way..God Bless the few that still seem to manage 100% resourcefulness in todays interwebbed/connected world...some ARE still doing it...and the Mennoites/Amish have not left the 18th century yet(but are selling their furniture on the web, and seem to be ending that era soon, and God Bless them as well, as they wind their course out)....
After all is said, its all about love and the spirit anyway....and that is all that counts...laughter, love, discipline, creativity, time, a sense of history, where we came from, where we are going, spirituality, and a sense of wonder at it all....and 250K...LOL! Sorry....
I will climb off my soapbox as well, per jens' statement at the end...and Jen, peace out to you, and best of luck in raising your family, and happiness as well...I'm sure you are a decent person, and doing the best you can for your family....thanks for the interesting chat about families...something to think about, espocially for those considering the same, and trying to get a handle on what exactly they are getting into(a lot)...
At age 21 in the 90s, in a shaky market, making less than 30K base salary in New York City, I determined that I no longer wanted to pay anyone rent and purchased a condo fixer upper at 85K. Put close to 20 percent down. Sold said condo for 3x that amount in 2003 and got more $$ than I could have ever saved. Best investment I've ever made. I disagree -- I urge young people, as long as they are prepared, to buy their residence vs. renting. As for the 'what if' factor, nothing in this world but death and taxes is guaranteed.
You mention prepared...good point...keep in mind though, that that appreciation you saw was at the beginning of the upswing in the RE market, and that is not going to repeat anytime soon...many people that got out of the game at the right time made a once in a lifetime nest egg chaching as well....unfortunately that appreciation will not happen per the 3X thing like it did in the mid 2000's.....the huge ponzi game has left the building, and many investors.rehabbers in once hot cities like Phoenix, Las Vegas, and much of south Florida lost everything they had, including their properties....back to the prepared.....is it ALWAYS better to buy than rent? Heck no....a mortgage note is a forever thing(30 years is essentially forever), and you are married to that bastard(note) till you pay it off...if you do not, laws are in place that automatically trigger court proceedings/injunctions per title claims....otherwise known as foreclosure...and we are in a VERY VERY shaky economy right now....and job loss is the main trigger of foreclosure right now....that being said, if a young person is VERY confident of a solid job footing, has at least 10-15K minimum, preferrably 15 K, for home expenses, and funds to pay off the mortgage after a potential job loss, AND can find a very good deal in an upcoming area, I would say go for it, but only if one's mortgage is 35% of your take home pay or less....if any of those 4 parameters are not on the one, forget about it and rent till it/they are all on the one..
It depends on the professional. There are plenty of MSWs that would love a 50K income. There are lots of lawyers working the state that make a little less than that. In earlier posts you mentioned 50K as just barely scraping by and now you are using it terms of it not being 'upscale'. There is a middle ground. I don't think anyone on here has said it's upscale but most people arguing that a person can get by reasonably well here on that.
I mentioned it is getting by if you are raising a family on it as a main/primary income, but comfortable if you are single without kids....
in neither case is 50K anything to boast about, which was our point.
The further point is that 50K is what 35 K was in the mid 90's, and that was very little even then, just a run of the mill wage...and the middle class has fallen so far, per the offshoring and outsourcing, that 50K is indeed looking "good", but that's just indicative of how much ground the middle class has lost in 15 years, and how low wages are in Austin, with a surfeit of college grads and young people willing to work cheap, and a never ending source of new residents looking to work cheap squeezed out of their local economies....
Honestly, in about 5 years, with inflation, 45K will be considered a good living wage...The expectations will of course continue to "rachet down" until we reach parity with the Chinese and Indians that have taken much of our manufacturing/service.tech jobs, and lowered tne world wages for the same as well...
200K combined? Are you bloody serious?? We live in a nice, safe neighborhood (and could live elsewhere as well), have 1.5 kids, save, have ample discretionary income, many of the bells and whistles people here have..and we don't make near that. We don't need to. Your opinion doth not make fact. 50K for a single person is good, especially if you don't carry tons of debt. You really shouldn't be paying so much a month in credit card bills. how about not use so much credit? Would I quit my job in NYC, where I'd be paid 75-80K to make 50K here? Yes, i sure would because the dollar goes reasonably far here. You can say what you want to the contrary, but I know how I live. You are spreading misinformation to prospective transplants by telling them 50K is a salary you wipe your behind with, and that a dual income of at least 150K is a must. then again, you're the same person who went out of their way to look down upon someone making 11/hr. Why am I not surprised that you deem 50K not good?
In addition, NO ONE SHOULD BOAST ABOUT THEIR SALARIES. Like penis envy, it's just meant to hide the insecurities in one's life.
You have 1.5 kids? I don't mean to bring that up, but I really had to laugh there...thanks for bringing some sorely needed humor to this post Riaelise!
"Cutting costs/scrimping" on children is an oxymoron of sorts...One certainly wants to be reasonable with expenses, but quality anything, short of doing it all yourself, costs quite a bit...per anything to do with giving kids all you can possibly provide, cutting costs is not the GOAL....not at all...the goal is to provide the best combination of love/personal attention AND the things that one must pay for to provide the same for the best upbringing possible....home schooling is a personal option done out of love, not cutting costs..actually, quite a frill for most parents, as in 80% of two-parent families with children over 3 both spouses work full or part time, mostly full time....the ability to homeschool is predicated on the blessing of a large living-wage income, by one spouse.....
The point, if there is one here, is not any specific number here....250K, 400K, 700K, whatever, the cost of raising a child to adulthood and paying for a 4 year college is staggering...college costs are so high now, the costs of the same could be about a third/half of what one spent period on the child up to 18 altogether....add several children 2-3 or so, and do the math....living in an upscale area, regardless of whether one would have "moved there anyway" are not exactly cheap as well, especially the real estate taxes....Jenn, would you like to mention what you pay in real estate taxes in your upscale Austin area? I would presume at least 5-6K a year..add all other child related expenses,and, even if one cuts back, still you are spending a ton...can't cut back on RE taxes or mortgage payments in an upscale area....
Again, if one TRULY was going to cut back, first one would move out of the prestigious area, with the prestigious school district you are not using but ARE paying for, and move to a far less expensive area in Austin's outskirts(exurban)....then you would recycle as much as possible, and use as little gas(driving) as possible(carbon footprint)....along with the homeschooling, you would provide most of the entertainment for your children yourself, as it was once done, before kids became practically born with Ipods in their ears, a playstation 3 in the left hand, and a cell phone in the right.....no electronica, or as little as possble, without the worrying as to handicapping the children per competing in a high-tech world either, as the children raised this way will be wise anough and resourceful enough to survive outside of the rat race themselves, and contimue the circle of home schooling/resourceful, frugal living ad infinitum....
That last paragraph, if you have not noticed, is absurd....we cannot handicap children from technology if they are to compete on an even footing with their peers....even homeschooling needs to partake of much technology, including much of the web/printers/etc....my last post, per that there is no avoiding the huge cost of raising children short of living in a commune in the Sierras, stands here...and that is a beautiful thing in its own way..God Bless the few that still seem to manage 100% resourcefulness in todays interwebbed/connected world...some ARE still doing it...and the Mennoites/Amish have not left the 18th century yet(but are selling their furniture on the web, and seem to be ending that era soon, and God Bless them as well, as they wind their course out)....
After all is said, its all about love and the spirit anyway....and that is all that counts...laughter, love, discipline, creativity, time, a sense of history, where we came from, where we are going, spirituality, and a sense of wonder at it all....and 250K...LOL! Sorry....
I will climb off my soapbox as well, per jens' statement at the end...and Jen, peace out to you, and best of luck in raising your family, and happiness as well...I'm sure you are a decent person, and doing the best you can for your family....thanks for the interesting chat about families...something to think about, espocially for those considering the same, and trying to get a handle on what exactly they are getting into(a lot)...
I clearly am missing your point. Are you bashing homeschooling here? I started homeschooling because the schools here didn't meet our expectations or our needs. Plus that 7:40 start time is absurd. Why would I sell the house that I already live in, incur the fees associated with a sale, and the move somewhere my husband would have a longer commute just because we decided not to keep our son in the neighborhood public school? That doesn't make any sense at all.
When did I say I lived in an upscale neighborhood in Austin? I wrote I lived in an upper-middle class neighborhood in Seattle, and obviously we no longer do because we are now in Austin living in a neighborhood that has not evolved into an upper-middle class neighborhood since we purchased.
When did I write about "cutting back"? I haven't cut back since we moved here, we can actually afford to do more now because the cost of living is so much less than where we came from and my husband's pay increased slightly.
And how is not having a pricey video game console system in my house handicapping my son for a high tech world? My husband never had one and is an embedded software engineer. Clearly, we have a computer in our house.
Again, main point - I am not spending 250K to raise my son to the age of 18 and I know many others who are not either.
ITC - you write so much sometimes, and refuse to end your sentences with a period. So it is hard to tell what you actually say. My assessment so far on the topic of how much income one needs to live in Austin: you are full of crap.
If I remember correctly, you don't have any children. It is hard for me to take from you any advice along the lines of "it's all about love and spirit" with raising children. You seem to forget that we parents have different views of the "best upbringing possible." A very good college education in Texas could cost just $15K per year if the child lives at home. One full year at UT or A&M costs about $25K including room and board. If you're gonna send your kids to college, you better plan for it. If you do - it isn't impossible for a smart family with a REASONABLE income. No one needs $200K per year you don't have to live in West Lake to make this happen.
ITC - you write so much sometimes, and refuse to end your sentences with a period. So it is hard to tell what you actually say. My assessment so far on the topic of how much income one needs to live in Austin: you are full of crap.
If I remember correctly, you don't have any children. It is hard for me to take from you any advice along the lines of "it's all about love and spirit" with raising children. You seem to forget that we parents have different views of the "best upbringing possible." A very good college education in Texas could cost just $15K per year if the child lives at home. One full year at UT or A&M costs about $25K including room and board. If you're gonna send your kids to college, you better plan for it. If you do - it isn't impossible for a smart family with a REASONABLE income. No one needs $200K per year you don't have to live in West Lake to make this happen.
Also, what about a familly vacation? If you took two parents and one child to say Disney World or something similar once per year, you are talking at least $3000 per year for airfare, hotels, food and a T-shirt.
Also, what about a familly vacation? If you took two parents and one child to say Disney World or something similar once per year, you are talking at least $3000 per year for airfare, hotels, food and a T-shirt.
We went to DC for a family of three this year and spent less that 2K.
Neither one of my parents make exactly fantastic incomes. My Mom is a teacher and makes around 45k a year and my Dad is self-employed, pulling in around 20k. Yet they own a pretty decent home with a pool, 2 newer modest cars, and will be able to retire reasonably well. Then again things were a lot cheaper back when they bought their house- which back then was really in the sticks. The suburbs have slowly crept in and now that home is closer to town.
My Dad was actually out of work for much of the time I was growing up. If we took trips, they were usually camping trips to a Florida state park beach or maybe to share a hotel ( an old hotel at that) in Daytona with my grandparents. As a kid I never knew we were in any form of financial hardship. It was only after I became older that I realized my folks had not been super well off during my childhood. As a kid I actually thought we were rich mainly because we lived in a house while most of those around us lived in ramshackle trailers and most had not even finished high school.
Ironically the first time in life I felt poor was when I moved to first the Northeast and later California. There are a LOT of people with craploads of money in those places and the distinction between classes is extremely noticeable. This was made even more apparent to me even after I started making a good income because even then it was clear that it took a huge amount of money to live not even as well as my parents do. My parents would have to be millionaires if they had what they have in TN in CA.
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