Barton Hills Elementary closing???? Can't be! (Austin, Dawson: elementary school, income, moving)

[capcat]

Originally Posted by mimimomx3

Psst- we had money back then. Of course fine arts are great for all those things you point out. There is no question as to their benefits. What I'm saying, and I realize how unpopular I am, is that in the era of recession, some things have to go. Should we keep the fun extras and cut boring stuff like English, math, science....? Bigger classes? Fewer teachers? Shorter hours? Raising taxes to fund a champagne budget is only going to eventually reduce the tax base.

Psst ...THL wrote that we didn't have those classes back then, and that it was of no consequence.

[riaelise]

I'd also chime in re: the discussion about extension of the school day -- I am vigorously trying to enroll my daughter in an exemplary charter school that has a 4 hour schoolday. They manage to cram enough into 4 tight hours than the regular 7, and it seems to work. So, a longer schoolday for me isn't necessary...and kids should have the time to be kids, to play, and to balance out their lives by extracirriculars (even if they aren't offered by the school). Anything so that they don't end up being a bunch of dull, uninteresting nerds (the issue we had when we were hiring last year -- kids were smart, but had no real interests or endeavors)

[HappyTexan]

Originally Posted by h886

Wow, if you want to talk "elitist" then please just take a look in the mirror. Do you realize that those breakfast menus you so snidely make fun of are used to serve the kids on the free and reduced lunch program? Studies have shown time and again that when a kid is sitting there hungry because they didn't have breakfast or dinner the night before, they can't learn. (Not that hard to figure out.) So yes, we feed those kids who live in poverty when they get to school so that they can at least have a full stomach while we attempt to teach them Algebra. I guess that makes us wasteful. We should let that kid starve while they sit next to your kid. No problem as long as your kid is well-fed, right?

My point with the volunteering is that you are painfully naive if you think that a community's socio-economic status has nothing to do with how many volunteers they can get. Yes, there are volunteers from every walk of life, but anyone who has ever set foot in a school realizes that the more affluent parts of town have numerous volunteers, donations from families any time the school has a pet project or fundraising, while the poorer side of town is just scraping by. You can ask for donations all you want, but it's a lot harder for them to find extra to give when they're on food stamps to begin with.

So yes, the result is that the PTA's in affluent neighborhoods are well-funded and have numerous volunteers, while the PTA's on the other side of town are not nearly so well-funded. We can debate what should and shouldn't be cut from schools, but pretending that the poor families "just don't work hard enough" to get their kids outside art/music instruction is insulting. What you suggest ends up punishing the very kids who have the least while elevating the children who already had the most.

None of the children were given a choice which type of family they would be born into.

And there are programs set up to help those less affluent schools with core learning. Feel free to sign up..I have.
I've worked at Matthews Elementary, currently working at Burnet Middle School and have just submitted a volunteer app for Webb Middle School..all for mathematics tutoring.

I don't even live in Austin school district but that is where they need the help.
The more volunteers they have, the more schools they can have a positive effect over.

Austin Partners in Education

[FueledByBlueBell]

Originally Posted by mimimomx3

Again, who's punishing whom? Look at the latest figures on math, reading, and science literacy. Average mathematics literacy, reading literacy, and science literacy scores of 15-year-old students, by sex and country: 2006
One interesting article focuses on Finland, which is the highest performing country world wide. Global grade: How do U.S. students compare? - Academic skills | GreatSchools Of particular interest is that all schools in Finland have the exact same curriculum, and they all receive the exact same amount of funding. Of course, we're not Finland, but I think there are lessons there. My goal would be that the GENEROUS funding public schools receive here in Austin be better managed, with more emphasis on the basic skills, more intervention for at risk kids (because of poverty, disabilities, etc.) and less on the extras that make school fun- those should be provided by parents or donations.

Yes, and Finland has a strong system that allows for stable families that have the education, time and energy to parent. We are missing this valuable piece of the equation.

[achtungpv]

Originally Posted by mimimomx3

My goal would be that the GENEROUS funding public schools receive here in Austin be better managed, with more emphasis on the basic skills, more intervention for at risk kids (because of poverty, disabilities, etc.) and less on the extras that make school fun- those should be provided by parents or donations.

[hilsmom]

curious where these numbers come from for the Cato chart. Does this include IDEA funding, E-Rate funding and Title I funding? Because I would not be surprised if increased #s of students who fall under IDEA and money for new technology is exploding that number (it seems to go up around 1997, which is when technology became a hot issue for schools)

Federal funding is a VERY small portion of school budgets, though. The Federal Government only provides about 8% of the nation's school funding dollars - the rest are state and local.

Also, many charter and private schools are not subjected to the tests that that chart is tracking. Not sure if including them would change the numbers much, but it is worth noting for statistical reasons.

[mimimomx3]

Originally Posted by h886

Wow, if you want to talk "elitist" then please just take a look in the mirror. Do you realize that those breakfast menus you so snidely make fun of are used to serve the kids on the free and reduced lunch program? Studies have shown time and again that when a kid is sitting there hungry because they didn't have breakfast or dinner the night before, they can't learn. (Not that hard to figure out.) So yes, we feed those kids who live in poverty when they get to school so that they can at least have a full stomach while we attempt to teach them Algebra. I guess that makes us wasteful. We should let that kid starve while they sit next to your kid. No problem as long as your kid is well-fed, right?

My point with the volunteering is that you are painfully naive if you think that a community's socio-economic status has nothing to do with how many volunteers they can get. Yes, there are volunteers from every walk of life, but anyone who has ever set foot in a school realizes that the more affluent parts of town have numerous volunteers, donations from families any time the school has a pet project or fundraising, while the poorer side of town is just scraping by. You can ask for donations all you want, but it's a lot harder for them to find extra to give when they're on food stamps to begin with.

So yes, the result is that the PTA's in affluent neighborhoods are well-funded and have numerous volunteers, while the PTA's on the other side of town are not nearly so well-funded. We can debate what should and shouldn't be cut from schools, but pretending that the poor families "just don't work hard enough" to get their kids outside art/music instruction is insulting. What you suggest ends up punishing the very kids who have the least while elevating the children who already had the most.
i
None of the children were given a choice which type of family they would be born into.

Is it really necessary to have the restaurant type menus that AISD has to feed kids? And wow....way to make assumptions. I know many dads who routinely take their kids to breakfast at school. They're not reduced meal or needy, either.

Again, I ask....who is leading the march for the folks in the houses on Lake Travis to give those up for the people in section 8 housing on the East side? It's a fact of life that there are inequities. Are you part of the everyone gets a trophy because they show up crowd?? Some people have more- that's the way it is, the way it's always been, and the way it always will be. I think we've done an amazing job of providing food, housing, health care, and education to more poeple than any country in the world- but there is a limit, and we are quickly approaching it.

[mimimomx3]

Originally Posted by riaelise

I'd also chime in re: the discussion about extension of the school day -- I am vigorously trying to enroll my daughter in an exemplary charter school that has a 4 hour schoolday. They manage to cram enough into 4 tight hours than the regular 7, and it seems to work. So, a longer schoolday for me isn't necessary...and kids should have the time to be kids, to play, and to balance out their lives by extracirriculars (even if they aren't offered by the school). Anything so that they don't end up being a bunch of dull, uninteresting nerds (the issue we had when we were hiring last year -- kids were smart, but had no real interests or endeavors)

Good luck! I hope it works for you. I'm a huge proponent of charter schools and vouchers. Parents have a right to decide how their kids will be educated and where. I would imagine that there is actually less than 4 hours of REAL learning in most schools!

[h886]

Originally Posted by mimimomx3

Is it really necessary to have the restaurant type menus that AISD has to feed kids? And wow....way to make assumptions. I know many dads who routinely take their kids to breakfast at school. They're not reduced meal or needy, either.

You're right. Let's just feed them gruel. That should be the only menu choice if you have the misfortune of being poor
Additionally, are you aware that the cafeteria charges money for this food to all except the kids on free lunch?

With regards to your test score "data" I would be interested to know what standardized means of testing they've used over that span of time. I've attended some interesting conferences in the past year where it's been illustrated the difference in the type of questions we were asked on standardized tests over the past 30 years, all of which were administered to the same grade level. The same kid that had to perform simple tasks like "circle 4 cubes" back in 1980 now has to analyze a rather complex word problem and come up with an answer. Testing has changed, profoundly. And granted, they're good changes, for the most part, but you're comparing apples to oranges.

[mimimomx3]

Originally Posted by h886

You're right. Let's just feed them gruel. That should be the only menu choice if you have the misfortune of being poor
Additionally, are you aware that the cafeteria charges money for this food to all except the kids on free lunch?

With regards to your test score "data" I would be interested to know what standardized means of testing they've used over that span of time. I've attended some interesting conferences in the past year where it's been illustrated the difference in the type of questions we were asked on standardized tests over the past 30 years, all of which were administered to the same grade level. The same kid that had to perform simple tasks like "circle 4 cubes" back in 1980 now has to analyze a rather complex word problem and come up with an answer. Testing has changed, profoundly. And granted, they're good changes, for the most part, but you're comparing apples to oranges.

Wow, who said anything about gruel?? Really? All I said is that maybe, just maybe, AISD can save some money by just offering Kix instead of Kix, Berry Berry, Cheerios, Texas Toast and Cheese toast. That's a whole more than what I have in my pantry! And of course I know that the meals aren't free- but they are offered at below cost, and the more food offered, the more staff is needed.

I gave you the links with the data. Spin it anyway you want.

Austin taxpayers are going to have to make some tough choices. We'll see what they are.