Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I posted the Richardson ruling for you earlier. It is before the Texas supreme court right now as well as several other cases waiting in the wings. It doesn't need to go any higher than that. Texas has a constitution as well you know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady
I'd take a Texas judge's ruling, but since we're talking the Constitution here, please give me as high in the appellate courts as there is a ruling.
That is correct, but they can't even try to put it on your credit anymore. The credit reporting agencies were sued and have agreed not to accept SCAMera tickets anymore. Texas was one of the plaintiffs. I suppose it could slip through and you are right if it does you can dispute it and it will be removed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Need4Camaro
I personally have nothing against the 'safety' intention of them for protecting children, but there are some unfair cases where the bus realizes there's a kid waiting at a stop at the last second, slams on the brakes and comes to a stop throwing the stop sign out and swinging the door open where on-coming traffic (coming toward the bus on the opposite side of the road) doesn't get enough time or warning to stop and gets caught by the camera. Bus drivers are just humans too...and I've seen some school busses do so stupid things on the highway.
If I was oncoming and the bus made a sudden stop, I'm not slamming on my brakes to potentially get rear ended for a sudden bus stop.
As for school bus camera tickets, they have no legal weight, infact they are weaker than a parking ticket. They can't take you to court, put points on your license, it may go on your credit report but they are easily disputed. For any kind of citation of which they may put points on your license or penalize you in any way, a full and active office MUST be witness, a camera of any kind is not enough. It is only enough as 'supporting' evidence after a human being has already witnessed.
The constitutional issues, both state and federal were decided in favor of the plaintiff in the original case. You are correct they are going through the motions on standing right now. Saying that he should have gone to a hearing first before he sued Richardson. But here's the interesting part. Richardson shut down their entire program while they are appealing the ruling. And they waited until the very last day to file the appeal likely getting legal help from the SCAMera company and a break on the contract for doing so. The attempt to short circuit the ruling on a technicality and their willingness to shut down the program instead of creating more class participants in the class action lawsuit that will be coming indicates to me they are just stalling as long as they can. Here is the SCOTUS case that also could end them all. They have agreed to take up this issue which could shut down SCAMera programs all across the country.
The current case(s) in Texas are quite interesting. In short, though, the current court battle is about jurisdiction, not constitutionality directly. The constitutional issues, though, will be significant at some point (it seems to me) and will eventually 'win the day' whether it is in the current cases or in future ones.
Nobody wants to see a driver blazing at high speed through a full-on red and causing a horrific crash. But that is extremely rare and the drivers that do that are unlikely to be deterred by a camera. And those violations would not generate enough revenue to even maintain the cameras. The vast majority of tickets are minor violations like stopping a bit past the stop line, making a rolling stop on right turn, or nipping the red by a quarter second before the cross direction had turned green.
Studies have shown that increasing yellow time has a greater effect on reducing red light violations than camera tickets. And then there's the fact that yellow lights have been tinkered with and shortened to induce more violations for the sake of more revenue. My opposition to red light cameras is solely because they are always used to generate revenue not promote safety.
Correct on all points. We normally see cities shorten the yellow change interval when SCAMeras are installed so they can pump up the revenue. Most tickets are actually issued for missing the yellow by a fraction of a second or slow rolling right on red. Neither of which are major causes of accidents.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceangaia
Nobody wants to see a driver blazing at high speed through a full-on red and causing a horrific crash. But that is extremely rare and the drivers that do that are unlikely to be deterred by a camera. And those violations would not generate enough revenue to even maintain the cameras. The vast majority of tickets are minor violations like stopping a bit past the stop line, making a rolling stop on right turn, or nipping the red by a quarter second before the cross direction had turned green.
Studies have shown that increasing yellow time has a greater effect on reducing red light violations than camera tickets. And then there's the fact that yellow lights have been tinkered with and shortened to induce more violations for the sake of more revenue. My opposition to red light cameras is solely because they are always used to generate revenue not promote safety.
Some screen names belong to folks living in Hays County. They may have been familiar with the completely unlawful "school speed zone" racket which was nothing more than a scheme to rip off taxpayers taking their kids to and from school.
Hays County officials engaged in violations of the Open Meetings Act to get an ordinance that itself was unlawful passed. The program was only implemented in commissioner precincts 3 and 4. Despite proclaiming the success of the program (not clear how "success" was measured) the county abruptly disbanded the program after a lawsuit was filed. To-date the county has refused to identify the victims of the racket. County officials authorities were basically used to shovel money from the pockets of parents of school children into the pockets of the vendor (ATS), lobbyists, and undoubtedly certain county employees.
During the course of the program, Hays County officials changed the signage in front of the schools in order to increase revenue for the vendor (ATS). After a few folks challenged the "tickets" for the Dripping Springs middle school, the county halted the "hearings", unlawfully changed the signs, and then resumed the hearings. The point was to rig the outcome of the hearing by changing the signage after-the-fact.
The program was ALWAYS about generating money. Certain county officials worked so hard against constituents one must wonder whether they had a personal financial incentive to do so (see Dallas County Schools link below). In Hays County, the cameras were set up only at schools in Wimberley and either the Dripping Springs middle school or the elementary school located in the Belterra subdivision. The county folded after the lawsuit was filed.
The racket is going on all over Texas. The same vendor (ATS) was involved in the same conduct in Smith county. The FBI and the Texas Attorney General's office investigated the Smith county commissioners court over the red light camera contract. For his role in the racket, the county judge of Smith county was charged, suspended from office, and ultimately agreed to resign to settle the investigation by the Texas Commission on Judicial Conduct. https://www.easttexasmatters.com/new...fice/563073214
The Smith county contract was implemented about the same time as the Hays county contract.
Dallas County Schools is a school district that had no schools. It contracted with many school districts to provide transportation services. It also went into the bus stop-arm camera business and entered into contract with school districts and cities like the city of San Marcos. Anyone watching the news the past few months would recognize the higher ups were little more than an operating crime syndicate. Don't think the Hays County deal was any different. https://www.nbcdfw.com/investigation...485728031.html
To suggest this was ever about "safety" is absurd. The red light camera case before the Texas Supreme Court currently has some problems. The court could find the systems violate the Texas Constitution or it could toss the case on procedural grounds (which doesn't mean the systems are constitutional).
Let me guess. You ran a red light, got caught by a camera, and decided to show them!
Because you do realize, whether or not you have to pay the ticket, the camera shows that you did, indeed, run the red light.
Actually, there have been many cases, in many different areas, where this has been found to be untrue. Many of the contracts that the vendors have provide for a piece of the revenues generated by the cameras to be sent back to the vendor - basically paying the vendor a commission for their product.
Years ago, before they were banned in San Diego, I was sent one of these tickets. In the photo included, you could actually see the reflection of the traffic light in my windshield that clearly showed that the light was still yellow at the time the photos was taken.
I chose to fight this and actually got the fine tossed. It later proved to be the case with thousands of these tickets that the manufacturer had intentionally set the camera to trigger a tad early.
Very good summary, I agree on all points. And thank you for the update on the speed vans in Wimberley, I was actually just trying to find out what happened with those, I wasn't sure they shut them down or not. Yes the Texas Supremes could punt and send back to a lower court, but there are also several other cases by Bowman waiting in the wings where he will get multiple bites at the apple. I believe the SCAMera companies know the dats of red light cameras in Texas are done it's just a matter of time. That's why they are trying hard in the legislature to legitimize their currently illegal bus ticket program so they can transition into that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight
Some screen names belong to folks living in Hays County. They may have been familiar with the completely unlawful "school speed zone" racket which was nothing more than a scheme to rip off taxpayers taking their kids to and from school.
Hays County officials engaged in violations of the Open Meetings Act to get an ordinance that itself was unlawful passed. The program was only implemented in commissioner precincts 3 and 4. Despite proclaiming the success of the program (not clear how "success" was measured) the county abruptly disbanded the program after a lawsuit was filed. To-date the county has refused to identify the victims of the racket. County officials authorities were basically used to shovel money from the pockets of parents of school children into the pockets of the vendor (ATS), lobbyists, and undoubtedly certain county employees.
During the course of the program, Hays County officials changed the signage in front of the schools in order to increase revenue for the vendor (ATS). After a few folks challenged the "tickets" for the Dripping Springs middle school, the county halted the "hearings", unlawfully changed the signs, and then resumed the hearings. The point was to rig the outcome of the hearing by changing the signage after-the-fact.
The program was ALWAYS about generating money. Certain county officials worked so hard against constituents one must wonder whether they had a personal financial incentive to do so (see Dallas County Schools link below). In Hays County, the cameras were set up only at schools in Wimberley and either the Dripping Springs middle school or the elementary school located in the Belterra subdivision. The county folded after the lawsuit was filed.
The racket is going on all over Texas. The same vendor (ATS) was involved in the same conduct in Smith county. The FBI and the Texas Attorney General's office investigated the Smith county commissioners court over the red light camera contract. For his role in the racket, the county judge of Smith county was charged, suspended from office, and ultimately agreed to resign to settle the investigation by the Texas Commission on Judicial Conduct. https://www.easttexasmatters.com/new...fice/563073214
The Smith county contract was implemented about the same time as the Hays county contract.
Dallas County Schools is a school district that had no schools. It contracted with many school districts to provide transportation services. It also went into the bus stop-arm camera business and entered into contract with school districts and cities like the city of San Marcos. Anyone watching the news the past few months would recognize the higher ups were little more than an operating crime syndicate. Don't think the Hays County deal was any different. https://www.nbcdfw.com/investigation...485728031.html
To suggest this was ever about "safety" is absurd. The red light camera case before the Texas Supreme Court currently has some problems. The court could find the systems violate the Texas Constitution or it could toss the case on procedural grounds (which doesn't mean the systems are constitutional).
That is dumb. Cameras are the easiest way to catch stupid people and the legislatures claim otherwise. I guess they know who the offenders are, they look in the mirror everyday.
Actually, there have been many cases, in many different areas, where this has been found to be untrue. Many of the contracts that the vendors have provide for a piece of the revenues generated by the cameras to be sent back to the vendor - basically paying the vendor a commission for their product.
Years ago, before they were banned in San Diego, I was sent one of these tickets. In the photo included, you could actually see the reflection of the traffic light in my windshield that clearly showed that the light was still yellow at the time the photos was taken.
I chose to fight this and actually got the fine tossed. It later proved to be the case with thousands of these tickets that the manufacturer had intentionally set the camera to trigger a tad early.
Yellow means prepare to stop, not go faster through the light.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
