Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Texas > Austin
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-17-2018, 04:49 PM
R4d
 
8 posts, read 28,296 times
Reputation: 36

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdman03 View Post
low property taxes (2.33%) compared to most Texas cities.
One of the reasons Georgetown has one of the lowest property tax rates in the area is because the city owns the local electric utility, which does not allow any competition.

Approximately 85 percent of Texans can choose an electric service plan that meets their needs. But not the residents of Georgetown! They get the one size fits all plan that Georgetown Utilities Systems (GUS) serves up. They cannot shop for an electric service plan that best meets their needs.

GUS’s customers pay some of the highest electric rates in the area. The fully allocated cost of 500 kWh of residential electric energy from GUS is 13.98 cents per kWh. Round Rock residents in Zip Code 78665, as one example among many, can select from numerous electric services plans the one that best meets their needs. If they restrict their choices to the three highest tiers of retailers as rated by their customers, their potential cost, based on a sample of rates, ranges from 4.8 cents per kWh to 13.9 cents per kWh. For 9.3 cents per kWh they can buy "green electric energy"; for 13.9 cents per kWh they can get free power on the weekends. They decide what is best for their needs! The rates for Round Rock were taken from Powertochoose.org, which is the Texas Public Utility Commission's online marketing channel that helps people choose an electric service plan that best meets their needs. The quotes change daily, but the bottom line is clear. GUS's customers pay more for electric energy than most people in the competitive markets surrounding Georgetown.

GUS put together an analysis of what its customers pay for 1,000 kWh per month compared to what like kind users in arbitrarily selected areas outside of Georgetown pay. Of the 40 providers included in the survey, which used non-statistical sampling as opposed to statistical sampling, GUS' customers pay more for electric energy than 24 of the providers charges. Moreover, several of the retailers included in the study don't sell electric energy in central Texas, i.e. El Paso Electric. Why they were included in the study is a mystery.

The researchers should have used a frequency distribution to show how different classes of user’s fare under GUS vs. other retail providers. Not just 1,000 kWh per month. A substantial portion of the Georgetown population lives in Sun City or in one of the many apartment communities in Georgetown. In many instances their use of electric energy is less than 1,000 kWh per month, i.e. 500 kWh per month, 750, etc. Their cost per kWh is substantially higher than the cost for 1,000 kWh because the demand charge - $20 per month - is spread over fewer energy units. GUS's low volume users subsidize the high-volume users, in part because of the demand charge, and in part because they cannot shop for an alternative service plan.

In 2017 the Electric Fund transferred $5.3 million to the General Fund. The city council claims that if it opened the local market to competition or sold the poles and wires - GUS is essentially a distribution company, property taxes would have to be raised to offset the lost of the transfers from the Electric Fund. Not necessarily! If the poles and wires were sold to a large electric distribution system, i.e. Oncor, CenterPoint Energy, etc., they would pay franchise taxes to the city. And it would be able to leverage its size to the benefit of all. GUS is a bit player!

Choice drove the deregulation of most of the electric service market in Texas. But city owned utilities and co-ops were given the option of opting out of the competitive electric energy market. All but one did.

Anyone considering moving to Georgetown or anyone living in Georgetown should know that they are paying considerably more for electric energy than people in the surrounding communities, and the surpluses harvested from the city owned electric utility are being used to hide the true cost of government.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-18-2018, 11:53 AM
R4d
 
8 posts, read 28,296 times
Reputation: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdman03 View Post
I didn't see anyone riding a bicycle.
I have been an adult cyclist for more than 42 years. I have ridden extensively in Dallas, where I lived for more than 33 years, as well as Fort Worth, Alpine, Colorado Springs, Tucson, and Melbourne, Australia.

I have been riding in and around Sun City for more than 10 years. I ride 4,500 to 5,000 miles per year. It is relatively safe, but there are a number of unique risks that a cyclist in Sun City needs to be aware of.

All the driveways front onto the street. Many times, people back out of them without looking. Moreover, sometimes their movement may be masked by a large pick-up truck or SUV parked in the driveway.

Many of the residents are too old to drive. They have many of the physical impediments that come with age, i.e. poor eyesight, loss of muscular agility, etc. They should turn in their driver’s license, but they continue to drive because they don’t have any reasonable options.

As has been noted frequently in the HOA’s weekly newsletter, many of the resident motorists appear to be from California. They ignore stop signs, cut caddy corner through intersections, and seemingly believe that the turn signal lever is for hanging keys on.

State Highway 195 and Ronald Reagan have wide shoulders that are good for cycling. But one should stay off of them on weekdays! During the week hundreds of gravel trucks ply both roadways. As one can see from the many tire pieces on the shoulders, they frequently shred their tires. Also, they drop a lot of gravel on the shoulders. If a cyclist is beside a truck when a tire gives way or large piece of gravel comes off of an overloaded truck, it could be a bad day.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-20-2018, 11:19 AM
 
Location: Round Rock, Texas
13,447 posts, read 15,470,908 times
Reputation: 18992
Quote:
Originally Posted by R4d View Post
One of the reasons Georgetown has one of the lowest property tax rates in the area is because the city owns the local electric utility, which does not allow any competition.

Approximately 85 percent of Texans can choose an electric service plan that meets their needs. But not the residents of Georgetown! They get the one size fits all plan that Georgetown Utilities Systems (GUS) serves up. They cannot shop for an electric service plan that best meets their needs.

GUS’s customers pay some of the highest electric rates in the area. The fully allocated cost of 500 kWh of residential electric energy from GUS is 13.98 cents per kWh. Round Rock residents in Zip Code 78665, as one example among many, can select from numerous electric services plans the one that best meets their needs. If they restrict their choices to the three highest tiers of retailers as rated by their customers, their potential cost, based on a sample of rates, ranges from 4.8 cents per kWh to 13.9 cents per kWh. For 9.3 cents per kWh they can buy "green electric energy"; for 13.9 cents per kWh they can get free power on the weekends. They decide what is best for their needs! The rates for Round Rock were taken from Powertochoose.org, which is the Texas Public Utility Commission's online marketing channel that helps people choose an electric service plan that best meets their needs. The quotes change daily, but the bottom line is clear. GUS's customers pay more for electric energy than most people in the competitive markets surrounding Georgetown.

GUS put together an analysis of what its customers pay for 1,000 kWh per month compared to what like kind users in arbitrarily selected areas outside of Georgetown pay. Of the 40 providers included in the survey, which used non-statistical sampling as opposed to statistical sampling, GUS' customers pay more for electric energy than 24 of the providers charges. Moreover, several of the retailers included in the study don't sell electric energy in central Texas, i.e. El Paso Electric. Why they were included in the study is a mystery.

The researchers should have used a frequency distribution to show how different classes of user’s fare under GUS vs. other retail providers. Not just 1,000 kWh per month. A substantial portion of the Georgetown population lives in Sun City or in one of the many apartment communities in Georgetown. In many instances their use of electric energy is less than 1,000 kWh per month, i.e. 500 kWh per month, 750, etc. Their cost per kWh is substantially higher than the cost for 1,000 kWh because the demand charge - $20 per month - is spread over fewer energy units. GUS's low volume users subsidize the high-volume users, in part because of the demand charge, and in part because they cannot shop for an alternative service plan.

In 2017 the Electric Fund transferred $5.3 million to the General Fund. The city council claims that if it opened the local market to competition or sold the poles and wires - GUS is essentially a distribution company, property taxes would have to be raised to offset the lost of the transfers from the Electric Fund. Not necessarily! If the poles and wires were sold to a large electric distribution system, i.e. Oncor, CenterPoint Energy, etc., they would pay franchise taxes to the city. And it would be able to leverage its size to the benefit of all. GUS is a bit player!

Choice drove the deregulation of most of the electric service market in Texas. But city owned utilities and co-ops were given the option of opting out of the competitive electric energy market. All but one did.

Anyone considering moving to Georgetown or anyone living in Georgetown should know that they are paying considerably more for electric energy than people in the surrounding communities, and the surpluses harvested from the city owned electric utility are being used to hide the true cost of government.
Interesting. My mom has PEC I think...she's in Berry Creek. That power to choose option is good if your usage is 2000 kwh. any higher than that and there's not much difference at all.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-20-2018, 12:03 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX
15,268 posts, read 35,624,789 times
Reputation: 8617
A bit off the discussion, but power rates are not as straight forward as some people (power utilities, mainly) would like you to think. The co-ops and munis almost all have pretty aggressive tiered pricing, so you can save a lot of money by conserving electricity. The big private utilities pay you a 'bonus' for using more electricity and, in some cases, a de facto penalty for using too little. And the munis and some of the co-ops sponsor solar programs that help offset the cost of solar panels. The private companies certainly don't do that...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-20-2018, 12:49 PM
 
Location: SW Austin & Wimberley
6,333 posts, read 18,051,726 times
Reputation: 5532
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainwreck20 View Post
A bit off the discussion, but power rates are not as straight forward as some people (power utilities, mainly) would like you to think. The co-ops and munis almost all have pretty aggressive tiered pricing, so you can save a lot of money by conserving electricity. The big private utilities pay you a 'bonus' for using more electricity and, in some cases, a de facto penalty for using too little. And the munis and some of the co-ops sponsor solar programs that help offset the cost of solar panels. The private companies certainly don't do that...
Not only that, even if the "utility rate" is higher or lower, it's just one component of what makes up the full bill.

For example, Austin and its city owned utility try to conduct social engineering through fee allocation and tiered pricing. My bill is pretty high even though my actual consumption is very low. MAinly because of several junk fees that get tacked on which have nothing to do with utility consumption (or my frugal use of it)

Here is a screenshot of my July Bill. What does it look like to GT? I don't know, but I'll bet PEC is cheaper than Austin Energy on the rate, and it doesn't tack on junk fees. Water/wasterwater are a different story as those are complicated and expensive services to provide and can vary wildly in smaller and emerging communities. Just look at the sh*tstorm going on in Wimberley and its sewer system

Attached Thumbnails
Pros and Cons of living in Sun City Georgetown-screen-shot-2018-08-20-1.45.14  
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-20-2018, 02:34 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX
15,268 posts, read 35,624,789 times
Reputation: 8617
It is very hard to get actual detailed data from providers, but the feds can get some of it:
Quote:
"The federal data shows that the bill for an Austin Energy residential customer with average use in 2015 came in at $97 a month.

The state average for monthly residential bills was $136. Austin Energy’s average bill was 28 percent lower than the state average and lower than all bordering retail providers."
Haven't found newer data yet.

Of course, that is not on a sf to sf comparison or anything, but still somewhat notable.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-20-2018, 02:52 PM
 
23,969 posts, read 15,069,127 times
Reputation: 12939
Even the PUC says Powertochoose is so played by the providers it is useless for determining rates. The providers get you with a low come on rate, free weekends or nights or some other bogus come then add all the other charges. Within 90 days of signing on for a year, your rate is really 13- 17 ents a kWh.

Austin Steve, you are getting water for free. Some of us in Harris county pay more for water and sewer than for electricity many months of the years.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-20-2018, 03:09 PM
 
Location: SW Austin & Wimberley
6,333 posts, read 18,051,726 times
Reputation: 5532
Quote:
Originally Posted by crone View Post
...
Austin Steve, you are getting water for free. Some of us in Harris county pay more for water and sewer than for electricity many months of the years.
Yeah, well it's just me and no sprinkler system, and I stopped watering the grass because it stays alive anyway somehow, but I hear you.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-20-2018, 04:47 PM
R4d
 
8 posts, read 28,296 times
Reputation: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by crone View Post
Even the PUC says Powertochoose is so played by the providers it is useless for determining rates. The providers get you with a low come on rate, free weekends or nights or some other bogus come then add all the other charges. Within 90 days of signing on for a year, your rate is really 13- 17 ents a kWh.
Where is the evidence that the Texas Public Utility Commission says that Powertochoose is played by the providers? What you are saying is the market is rigged!

As is true in any competitive market, one needs to read the contract for whatever provider he or she decides to go with. Well, not in those markets controlled by a city or co-op. They have no choice; they take whatever the government dishes up.

In the competitive electric energy market, which as noted covers 85 percent of Texans, people can shop for a contract that meets their needs. Not the needs of local politicians.

As noted in my post, the rates in Georgetown, as well as the average electric bill, exceed the rates and average bill for all of the surrounding communities, most of which are served by investor owned electric utilities. They even exceed the rates and total bills for San Marcos, Austin, and PEC.

A Georgetown bill for 1,000 kWh of energy is 114 percent of the same amount of energy for Austin. And it is 128 percent of the cost of the same amount of energy for San Marcos. Moreover, the Georgetown City Council, which oversees Georgetown Utilities Systems, is proposing an increase of up to 8.06 percent over its current rates. Like Georgetown Austin and San Marcos owned their electric utility.

Comparing averages is over simplified. To make a meaningful comparison, one needs to use a frequency distribution of the rates and total electric bill. A relatively low volume user in Georgetown pays a higher rate per kWh than a high volume user because the demand charge is spread over few units of use. The fully allocated cost per kWh is necessary for comparison purposes.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-20-2018, 05:17 PM
R4d
 
8 posts, read 28,296 times
Reputation: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by riaelise View Post
Interesting. My mom has PEC I think...she's in Berry Creek. That power to choose option is good if your usage is 2000 kwh. any higher than that and there's not much difference at all.
In Georgetown the low volume users are subsidizing the high volume users. For example, the cost of 500 kWh from Georgetown Utilities Systems (GUS) is 13.98 cents per kWh. This is the fully allocated cost; it includes the energy charge and the demand charge. The cost of 1,000 kWh, which according to GUS is close to the average usage in Georgetown, is 11.98 cents; the cost of 1,500 kWh is 11.31 cents per kWh, and the cost of 2,000 kWh is 10.98 cents per kWh. The higher the usage, the closer the cost per kWh gets to the state rates.

Of course the more power a customer uses the higher her monthly bill will be. So, the total bill for 500 kWh in Georgetown would be $69.90, while the cost for 2,000 kWh would be $219.60. The cost of 1,000 kWh, which is taken from a comparative worksheet put together by GUS, would be $119.80

The cost of 1,000 kWh per month in Austin is $101.76, which trumps Reliant Clear Flex at $89.05, San Marcos at $90.42, Reliant Secure Advantage at $97.05, Green Mount Plus at $98.24, Magic Valley at $100.70, and Accent/Go Green at $101.00. But 1,000 kWh is just an arbitrary number; in fact, GUS admits that it rounded its actual average up from approximately 975 kWh per month.

All the number crunching in the world, however, misses a key point. People should be able to shop for an electric energy plan that best meets their needs. They should not be held captives by a pubic utility or a co-op. They should have choice, just as they have a choice about where to shop for groceries, cars, travel, etc.

Choice is what drove the opening of the investor owned electric utility market in Texas. I should know; I was heavily involved with a large electric utility in helping to make it happen.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Settings
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2020 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Texas > Austin

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top