WE NEED ACTUAL REFORM at the state level! Prop Taxes (Houston: real estate, insurance)

[ScoPro]

I see that AISD claims they are going to cut several hundred jobs at the central administration headquarters.
I recall back in the 1980s they claimed to be downsizing those bureaucrats, but in reality just moved them out to different campuses around the district.

Round Rock ISD is being run the same way.

[scot892]

We need to get rid of the school tax part of the property tax since that is the biggest part of the property tax. It's ridiculous that's included in the property tax.

We definitely don't want to include additional tax, i.e. income tax, to supplement the property tax, that only incentivizes more money the government takes from Peter to pay Paul and will NOT decrease the property tax. This, is after all, supposed to be a Conservative State.

If they can change it to purchase price, rather than appraised value each year, it would be much more manageable without adding new tax to tax payers.

[Need4Camaro]

How else would we pay for schools if we didn't have income tax?

[Trainwreck20]

Originally Posted by scot892

We need to get rid of the school tax part of the property tax since that is the biggest part of the property tax. It's ridiculous that's included in the property tax.

We definitely don't want to include additional tax, i.e. income tax, to supplement the property tax, that only incentivizes more money the government takes from Peter to pay Paul and will NOT decrease the property tax. This, is after all, supposed to be a Conservative State.

Since public school funding is required by state constitution, what is your proposed method for funding schools, then? Crazy high sales tax?

Originally Posted by scot892

If they can change it to purchase price, rather than appraised value each year, it would be much more manageable without adding new tax to tax payers.

Then you end up with California crazy prices and tax deficit issues. Residential property taxes that reflect the current value help keep real estate prices down (they would be much higher if property tax was lower) and force investors to decide whether to keep property and pay the (non-HSE) property tax or sell the property. The sales of investment property helps individual buyers into the market and also puts more inventory on the market.

For all that property tax sucks for an individual, it is better for the population as a whole.

[albert648]

Originally Posted by Trainwreck20

Since public school funding is required by state constitution, what is your proposed method for funding schools, then? Crazy high sales tax?

Nowhere in the State Constitution does it say schools must be free to the end user.

And maybe we should stop measuring the quality of education in terms of inputs (e.g. spend per student) and measure outcomes.

Originally Posted by Trainwreck20

Then you end up with California crazy prices and tax deficit issues. Residential property taxes that reflect the current value help keep real estate prices down (they would be much higher if property tax was lower) and force investors to decide whether to keep property and pay the (non-HSE) property tax or sell the property. The sales of investment property helps individual buyers into the market and also puts more inventory on the market.

For all that property tax sucks for an individual, it is better for the population as a whole.

Prop 13-like legislation does have its own set of problems, but California's fiscal issues come from government waste and corruption. That isn't to say it doesn't exist here.

Government wastes money because there's no incentive for fiscal responsibility. If bureaucrats' raises were determined based on how much cost they cut each fiscal year, government budgets would shrink 20% overnight.

[Trainwreck20]

Originally Posted by albert648

Nowhere in the State Constitution does it say schools must be free to the end user.

THE TEXAS CONSTITUTION

ARTICLE 7. EDUCATION

Sec. 1. SUPPORT AND MAINTENANCE OF SYSTEM OF PUBLIC FREE SCHOOLS. A general diffusion of knowledge being essential to the preservation of the liberties and rights of the people, it shall be the duty of the Legislature of the State to establish and make suitable provision for the support and maintenance of an efficient system of public free schools.

Originally Posted by albert648

Prop 13-like legislation does have its own set of problems, but California's fiscal issues come from government waste and corruption. That isn't to say it doesn't exist here.

Government wastes money because there's no incentive for fiscal responsibility. If bureaucrats' raises were determined based on how much cost they cut each fiscal year, government budgets would shrink 20% overnight.

My comments weren't about CA, per se, just that hamstringing property taxes has has very negative long-term effects on housing prices.

[escanlan]

Originally Posted by albert648

Nowhere in the State Constitution does it say schools must be free to the end user.


I have always said that the whole should not be responsible for the burden of the few. Nothing wrong with charging a small tax to the whole to help with the few but it is time that a fee be charged per student for services rendered. That would also advance a "School Choice" approach where parents can send their children to whatever school they feel is best for them. It would also incentivize the public school system to actually improve or obviously wither and die!


And maybe we should stop measuring the quality of education in terms of inputs (e.g. spend per student) and measure outcomes.

Actually in large part is measured in outcomes but instead of acting on the outcomes the powers that be just continually throw money at schools with poor outcomes in hopes it will fix the problem. This goes to one of your previous suggestions/points where those systems that perform and are able to do so within a reasonable budget should be rewarded for doing that.

Prop 13-like legislation does have its own set of problems, but California's fiscal issues come from government waste and corruption. That isn't to say it doesn't exist here.


Yes it does exist here but obviously nowhere on the HUGE scale that it does in California!


Government wastes money because there's no incentive for fiscal responsibility. If bureaucrats' raises were determined based on how much cost they cut each fiscal year, government budgets would shrink 20% overnight.


Either how much cost they cut and/or how well they perform within the budget/funds provided to them. Of course we know that will never happen.

And there you go again, quit making sense as that is not part of the plan!


Responses in blue above.

[scot892]

Originally Posted by Trainwreck20

Since public school funding is required by state constitution, what is your proposed method for funding schools, then? Crazy high sales tax?

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

How else would we pay for schools if we didn't have income tax?

Since it's the Legislatures that are forcing school tax on the general public, I say take part of their salaries and put it into the schools. Would love to see that but that would never happen. Since that won't happen, I say create a hybrid school tax, where, if you have kids attending the school then you pay the school tax but if you don't have any kids attending the school, then you don't have to pay the school tax.

I can live with higher use tax, just like the school tax, if you use/buy it then you get taxed. So, increase in sales tax to reduce property tax would be a good exchange.

[WRM20]

Originally Posted by scot892

Since it's the Legislatures that are forcing school tax on the general public, I say take part of their salaries and put it into the schools. Would love to see that but that would never happen. Since that won't happen, I say create a hybrid school tax, where, if you have kids attending the school then you pay the school tax but if you don't have any kids attending the school, then you don't have to pay the school tax.

I can live with higher use tax, just like the school tax, if you use/buy it then you get taxed. So, increase in sales tax to reduce property tax would be a good exchange.

The Legislature could provide a lot more State funding to schools and thus reduce property taxes. But that would offend the money men behind the legislators, so it won't happen. In fact, the lege sees rising property values as a good thing, since it means more local funding of schools and the lege doesn't have to think about it more.

Tax if your kids are attending school? Ummm, no, because then all of the kids from lower socioeconomic areas would just not go to school. There's nothing wrong with what we have now, other than the State isn't providing enough funding. If public schools required students to pay, then my wife would never have gone to school, since her Dad thought education was a waste of time, and that at 16, you should be working at some menial job with no future. Sure, you make $20k per year, but that's what you will make 30 years from now as well.

[CarnivalGal]

My biggest issue with the property taxes is that I am being taxed on unrealized gains. In other words, I am paying taxes on money I haven't actually seen. If the real estate market tanks, and I sell my house, I don't get any money back that I paid on taxes at the higher value, even though I never pocketed any money from that higher value. As an added bonus, if I live in my house long enough, and it apprciates enough, I get to pay capital gains tax ON TOP OF the property tax I've been paying on those same gains.

It's basically a sales tax on your house that you pay forever, even though you only bought the house once. Imagine if we did that with everything?