The toll roads (crime, legal, building)

[orbius]

Originally Posted by HappyTexan

That bypass was for 18 wheelers to go around Austin instead of through it.
It was supposed to clear up I35 traffic.

From what I've read it's too expensive for the 18 wheelers to take.
Now they have started letting development happen..totally what it was NOT sold as. We have enough development.

It's just more of the "build it and they shall come" mentality. You cannot alleviate traffic with more roads as more roads just brings on more development.

I agree, however insead of pay lanes as they're proposing on Mopac. I think they should put in bus lanes.
That would get Austin drivers motivated to make smarter transportation choices. Seeing buses barrelling down Mopac and 35 in their own lane while they sit stuck in traffic.

[HappyTexan]

Originally Posted by orbius

I agree, however insead of pay lanes as they're proposing on Mopac. I think they should put in bus lanes.
That would get Austin drivers motivated to make smarter transportation choices. Seeing buses barrelling down Mopac and 35 in their own lane while they sit stuck in traffic.

Yup, I agree. Smarter roads, not more roads.

[mimimomx3]

Originally Posted by Driftwood1

The logic behind building Mopac with that bottleneck as it crosses the bridge shows the total lack of foresight the planners had. It drops a lane both ways for like 1/2 mi. Eliminating that lil flub would have the largest impact on mopac. Open up the shoulder over the bridge at rush hour? Might work.
Could it be they never wanted/expected the growth south of the river?

I don't think that Austin ever imagined the kind of growth we've had. I see no need to rip things up (at great cost and indebtedness) because of the growth- people who move here should just deal with it and learn to love it the way we long term residents have.

[S6Sputnik]

Originally Posted by orbius

I agree, however insead of pay lanes as they're proposing on Mopac. I think they should put in bus lanes.
That would get Austin drivers motivated to make smarter transportation choices. Seeing buses barrelling down Mopac and 35 in their own lane while they sit stuck in traffic.

I think that would be a really dumb idea! I think busses should be driving on side roads where they can safely pick up and drop off customers.

[oldtoiletsmkgdflrpots]

Originally Posted by S6Sputnik

I think that would be a really dumb idea! I think busses should be driving on side roads where they can safely pick up and drop off customers.

It isn't a "dumb" idea at all. It isn't unusual for a bus to have it's own lane on expressways.

[Driftwood1]

There is where the traffic problem started, lack of foresight, growth is inevitable. It isnt from just the newcomers, you dont think native austinites have babies? My only quandry is why they built a road with a deliberate bottleneck..

Originally Posted by mimimomx3

I don't think that Austin ever imagined the kind of growth we've had.

[AK123]

Originally Posted by orbius

Is it a surprise to you that many people see how Houston has developed and said 'yuck'? Not that Houston is universally bad, but many parts of it are endless strip malls, highways, traffic, XXX porn shops, strip clubs. Areas of town that used to be vibrant, deteriorate over time, become slums, etc.

The parts along some of the freeways?
I see this in the outer parts of Austin too... perhaps it's the unincorporated areas.

Inside of Houston -- especially the more desirable areas -- the land is just getting too expensive to support "cheap" developments like this. It's all turning into expensive townhomes and the like. The one time disadvantage of having no zoning has become an advantage because the upper-end developers don't have to jump through a bunch of hoops to build (and this is coming from someone who is generally pro-zoning.)

Anyway, the case of Houston and Austin seem like two different issues; Houston already had the freeways, already had the suburban housing developments; it's just now the freeways have been widened (i.e. Hwy 59 and I-10) to try and alleviate some of the traffic that was happening anyway.

I could see how someone from, say, Portland could say "yuck" about the way it looks... but from elsewhere in Texas, where many of the major roadways look so similar? Seems odd.

Originally Posted by orbius

Toll roads create vastly different patterns of development. Toll roads = less traffic = most corporate businesses will never develop along a toll road = no sprawl.
Less development along new highways = more development and density downtown.

Or more development in the suburb areas/suburb cities instead? Where land is often cheaper?

Originally Posted by orbius

Generally the Austin experiment has been fairly successful in reducing sprawl.

I guess you'll find out in ten or so years.

Either it will have worked... or you'll have developers continuing to build new housing developments (which is what seems to be happening now) and a lot of really pissed off residents, unhappy about sitting in gridlock because the freeways are not sufficient to get them to/from work.

[orbius]

I think you'll just see businesses and sprawl move to areas outside of Austin which is already happening with Round Rock. In 20 years I wouldnt be surprised if there wasnt another skyline developing somewhere outside of Austin.

[mimimomx3]

Originally Posted by Driftwood1

There is where the traffic problem started, lack of foresight, growth is inevitable. It isnt from just the newcomers, you dont think native austinites have babies? My only quandry is why they built a road with a deliberate bottleneck..

Growth is not inevitable.
Babies replace people who pass away.
The bottleneck didn't used to be a bottleneck.

[Driftwood1]

Last time I checked population birth rates still exceed deaths, population is still positive, but only just. Its nearly a dead heat, but immigration, which plays a much bigger role, is WAY up.
So unless immigration, both legal and illegal, slows, growth is inevitable.
A bottleneck is a bottleneck, whether full to capacity or not. The one lane drop each way over the bridge is a bottleneck.