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If Indonesia had higher widespread Christianity on all islands, is this going to encourage extra improved relations to Celtic Oceania Australia? Respective Continent, and Race are still at friendly odds with each other. Ending up like a Philippines. Is AUS familiar allies to PH?
Malaysia might almost be radical or majority Muslim even further than Indonesia according to exact original expectations/perception before visiting. Almost are twin countries that belong together. Who knew!? Is the title also realistically applicable to Australia-Malaysia? Probably, a bit less of the alienation than with Indonesia. Yet, fair/not hostile. Considering the exotic degree of separation.
While Australia has around 25 Million, Indonesia is with! 200 to 290 Million! 10X+ with less land area! Really can't believe just 4th behind China, India, USA! Almost appears crowded! with borderline third world developing roughness compared to first World/developed/wealthy/Western/still very Asian friendly/wide open spaces Australia.
Malaysia is only around 60% Muslim, as there’s a substantial Chinese and Indian community that practices Buddhism, Hinduism and Christianity. In Indonesia, the Muslim population approaches 90% of the total, with a few major places like Bali that are predominantly Hindu.
Malaysia is only around 60% Muslim, as there’s a substantial Chinese and Indian community that practices Buddhism, Hinduism and Christianity. In Indonesia, the Muslim population approaches 90% of the total, with a few major places like Bali that are predominantly Hindu.
And Indonesia also has areas, like Banda Aceh in Sumatra, that are under Sharia Law.
I don’t believe there are such areas or provinces in Malaysia, that are that fundamentalist.
Malaysia still practices corporal punishment, which is a human rights violation, but then so does a modern country like Singapore.
All of these countries have the death penalty too for Drug trafficking.
In any event , without looking at Census figures, I don’t believe there are that many Malaysian immigrants in Australia either (like Indonesia), certainly compared to other Southeast Asian countries.
1. Same with India. 2. Well, Jakarta is the absolute best thing about all of Indonesia. Very surprising Australians go to Bali before relatively highly urban Java island. Is that because Bali is Hindu majority while Java is Muslim? 3. Including vice versa with reciprocal relations. Australians appear to view Indonesia, Malaysia, Brunei at least decently respectful enough.
Australians go to Bali primarily for the beach resorts. Especially people from Perth, who probably find it considerably cheaper than going to Queensland.
I don’t think we avoid Muslim countries. Turkey is a very popular and much loved destination and Dubai is a very popular stop-over on the way to Europe.
Indonesia is another Malaysia, Brunei, Maldives, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Iran, Uzbeki/Tajiki/Kyrgyz/Turki the Other Stan's, Kazakhstan, Oman, UAE, Bahrain, Qatar, Kuwait, Azerbaijan, Turkey, Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, Turkish side of Cyprus, Albania, Bosnia, Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco. (In order of exact geographic miles from Australia). Good to see Celtic Oceania residents are open to 28 unique international Travel Destinations. Also, 29 for some Provinces* of India.
Because of direct geographic access points from miles/km with airplane, Indonesia is the most closest Ally or Enemy to Australia compared to these other Muslim countries. Looks like a bit mixed/just mostly an Ally.
You know I am straight, yet what do Indonesian think of LGBTQ citizens of the Western countries: USA, Canada, pretty much absolutely any Europe country, Australia, New Zealand, or even South America/the various Brazil's. Hopefully for them, just following the rules status quo, and no delusional hostile animosity.
I went to Malaysia in 2017. (Kuantan)
There were certainly plenty of Muslim Malaysians at the airports etc.
The resort I stayed at was mainly westerners and Chinese tourists.
But like a lot of Muslim countries that depend on tourism, they tend to turn a blind eye to western tourists doing things that would be against their religion and sensitivities . (including drinking, LGBTQ etc)
Indonesia would be similar to Malaysia there.
I doubt there are too many prosecutions of westerners there, unless you do something really dumb like drugs and drug trafficking.
Indonesia is another Malaysia, Brunei, Maldives, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Iran, Uzbeki/Tajiki/Kyrgyz/Turki the Other Stan's, Kazakhstan, Oman, UAE, Bahrain, Qatar, Kuwait, Azerbaijan, Turkey, Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, Turkish side of Cyprus, Albania, Bosnia, Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco. (In order of exact geographic miles from Australia). Good to see Celtic Oceania residents are open to 28 unique international Travel Destinations. Also, 29 for some Provinces* of India.
Because of direct geographic access points from miles/km with airplane, Indonesia is the most closest Ally or Enemy to Australia compared to these other Muslim countries. Looks like a bit mixed/just mostly an Ally.
You know I am straight, yet what do Indonesian think of LGBTQ citizens of the Western countries: USA, Canada, pretty much absolutely any Europe country, Australia, New Zealand, or even South America/the various Brazil's. Hopefully for them, just following the rules status quo, and no delusional hostile animosity.
Actually there are a large number of LGBTQ people in places of a cosmopolitan flair like Penang. I dare say KL as well.
Obviously in conservative religious areas there would be little tolerance. Same thing would apply in similar areas of The States.
I've witnessed scantily dressed (bikini's) Nordic women experiencing the wrath of locals (Malays) and even a stone thrown .
One must expect the ire of a certain group of the population under such circumstances. Again such behaviour would not have caused a second look in areas frequented by foreigners. Perhaps some local male harassment (over appreciative perhaps[?)
Well Indonesia is South East Asia biggest economy. It has rising middle class, a predicted economic growth of 5 per cent in 2023 and an economy which is projected to be the fourth largest in the world by 2045, it is an imperative for both the Australian private and public spheres to take a second look at the Indonesian business market.https://www.internationalaffairs.org...-a-fresh-look/
Yes Indonesia is a very important trade partner for Australia and it will grow in the future.
Regarding immigration, when Indonesia became independent over 70 years ago from the Netherlands, its Dutch Indonesian people, mostly migrated enmass to the Netherlands,. Australia at that time strongly discouraged Dutch Indonesian peoples, because Australia was following the White Australian policy, and had a one drop rule as the Dutch Indonesian people were mostly mixed Euro/INdo people. However during WW2 many Dutch Indonesians came to Australia as refugee and Australia did welcome them, yet only the condition the non White people from Indonesia would be sent back there asap after the war.
The Dutch INdonesian community in the Netherlands is the biggest ethnic minority there and represent 1.5 to 2 million people, and have very successfully intergrated in Dutch society, and have never caused any problems in the Netherlands, apart from certain ethnic groups from some Indonesian islands that moved to the Netherlands in the 1970s, but today there are no problems with INdo people there. Dutch can say certain ethnic groups can cause problems in the Netherlands but not ever heard a Dutch complain about Indonesian people.
It is easier for an Indonesian person to go to the Netherlands and migrate there than Australia, due to the common historical links.
When I lived for awhile in The Netherlands way back in the eighties, it was The Moluccans who were by far the largest number and still some were politically active (against the regime) Not forgetting the train that was hijacked by radicals some years prior. I guess those have passed on and their kids integrated into Dutch life these days to be unconcerned about things from the past.
I recall back in 2000 how the Indonesians terrorised the ethnic Chinese,there were protests held among Chinese in SE Asia such as Taiwan,China,HK,Macao against the Indonesian thugs.
For first post in Quotes, only Kuantan of Pahang? Expecting the demographics over there to be almost 100% Muslim.
Malaysia is an Indonesia. My own three visits is in 2022 this year. May-June 2022, Singapore in between, then back with bus, and after Australia visit in September 2022. Did see Australians in a Georgetown Penang Hostel. Don't know why not in a Luxury Hotel also on the island. More Buddhists in Pulau Pinang compared to Kuantan. Penang and Pahang are different places. Even if exact spelling of the word is that close. Westerners have to be careful enough in Islamic regions far outside of whatever is in gender, sexuality. Other rules such as no Alcohol in Kuwait for one example. Indonesia, Malaysia aren't as strict compared to Kuwait, Iran, or Brunei. Does anyone ever get wrongfully arrested in Indonesia: Americans, Australians, EU Citizens, Scandinavians, Chinese pre 2020's, Japanese, Taiwanese, South Koreans, the British? Can't ever sour relations that much between Australia-Indonesia one example.
The simple rule was West Coast being more tolerant outside of kampongs (Malay villages) while East Coast far less so. Even there were differences. A few tourist areas for example. Kelantan , has always been conservative and home to Malay conservatism , wrapped in nationalism and religion.
There has been growing conservatism over the decades. But all is not always what it may appear to be. Malaysia is not as strict as more fundamental Muslim countries as the rights of minority races are enshrined in the constitution.
There have been elements within the Muslim political party pushing for Sharma Law, but to date without success. Malaysia it would be fair to say, is more 'socially developed' than Indonesia. Better educated , with far more people being educated abroad , most speak English to a high level which are added reasons why it differs from Indonesia.
Penang Island has for decades been a major travellers point. Cheap hotels were the norm decades back when George Town had a real vibe. Much lost over the years. I think you'll find travellers go for cheaper places to stay while tourists stay in hotels. The former are usually away longer.
Indonesia is another Malaysia, Brunei, Maldives, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Iran, Uzbeki/Tajiki/Kyrgyz/Turki the Other Stan's, Kazakhstan, Oman, UAE, Bahrain, Qatar, Kuwait, Azerbaijan, Turkey, Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, Turkish side of Cyprus, Albania, Bosnia, Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco. (In order of exact geographic miles from Australia). Good to see Celtic Oceania residents are open to 28 unique international Travel Destinations. Also, 29 for some Provinces* of India.
Because of direct geographic access points from miles/km with airplane, Indonesia is the most closest Ally or Enemy to Australia compared to these other Muslim countries. Looks like a bit mixed/just mostly an Ally.
You know I am straight, yet what do Indonesian think of LGBTQ citizens of the Western countries: USA, Canada, pretty much absolutely any Europe country, Australia, New Zealand, or even South America/the various Brazil's. Hopefully for them, just following the rules status quo, and no delusional hostile animosity.
Well Indonesia is a lot more religious than Australia. Generally religious countries, and not just muslim countries such as India are largely anti LGBT in culture. Of course, many people in those countries have no problem with the LGBT in the closet. But with the transgenders they have traditionally been tolerated in Indonesia. Plus I know someone that teaches at an Islamic school in Indonesia and did encounter transgenders there. Transgenders have traditionally been tolerated in Indonesia. Plus in Indonesia there is a Islamic school in INdonesia that welcomes transgender students: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdwkwQwNpfs Plus there is a Muslim Indonesian friend of mine living in Indonesia who had a gay pride photo on her facebook profile picture. Plus the LGBT can live a good life there, as long as they are discrete about it. I met an Indonesian gay person over there, and he seems to live a good life and would never come out to his parents. But has no problem meeting gays. I can imagine Bali is a popular destination for the Australian LGBT community. LGBT keep coming back to Bali, and hotels and resorts have no problem with allowing guests of the same sex sharing a bed.
I also noticed a hotel I was staying in Indonesia, I saw there was a double bed at a room and two muslim women appeared to share the same bed.
I also knew a guy from Egypt who was Muslim, and would have sex with men, but would never say he is gay. He has no problems with finding his desires with guys back in his country Egypt. No problem at all of booking a double size size bed at hotel room in Egypt to share with a guy there.
BTW it not all black and white in this as Turkey legalised homosexality in the 19th century, while at the same time Australia and then its colony the UK it was illegal. Plus it is legal for a Transgender person to be classified as transgender in places such as Iran and Pakistan. One can get gender affirming surgery in those countries if you are a male and you see yourself as a female. Plus in Pakistan there is a school where transgenders can go to which is funded by the Pakistani government: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlXHtiZFnVo
Ah, earlier on in the 2000's.. Forget 9/11 perception! How delusional. Or Iraq, Afghanistan.
What happened exactly in the terrorizing? Can see how Malaysian, Indonesian Chinese Buddhists might not get along that much with the average Muslims majority population.
Expecting Australia-Indonesia relations is even nicer 2010-2019/2020's right compared to 2000-2009.
Indonesia like the rest of SE Asia,its economy is dominated by ethnic Chinese,and they resented that,if a rubber plantation burnt down ,the firemen could just stand there with the hose and do nothing.
The Indonesian back in 1990s decided to terrorize the Chinese so they would leave and seize their properties.
Women were kidnapped and raped by soldiers disgusised as civilians ,they will go into a building and floor by floor,seizing women and violated them,or kidnapped them and raped all night and released them in the morning.
Some were dragged off buses and raped in the public while the street crowd cheered.
The families then emigrated to AUSTRALIA or whereever they can escape too,but then they were told if they dont come back ,their assets would be confiscated.
Chinese is the largest race in SE Asia,there was such an uproar among Chinese in TAiwan,HK,CHina and they started demonstrating in their own country and even threatened to invade Indonesia if they do not cease such .
Finally a delegation from TAIWAN went to Indonesia and met with the government.
It is not just Indonesia,similar cases in Malaya ,Burma as well.
The Chinese settled in those countries long ago but they stick to themselves and marry among themselves,and they pretty much controlled the local economy.
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Really can't believe just 4th behind China, India, USA! Almost appears crowded! with borderline third world developing roughness compared to first World/developed/wealthy/Western/still very Asian friendly/wide open spaces Australia.
Can see how Malaysian, Indonesian Chinese Buddhists might not get along that much with the average Muslims majority population. 
