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You really think GM will still be around in 10yrs.?
Who knows. However, the warranty I was mentioning is not just for the Volt, that's the warranty for all hybrid cars from all manufacturers. Even if GM does bite the dust, I would assume the companies carcass would be acquired.
Well, that's always the sticky part isn't it? There's plenty of oil out there, it's just the cheap stuff that is easily refined that's getting harder and harder to come by. I believe the estimates he's quoting are based on oil being in the $90 range to make it economically feasible to drill it and refine it.
I hope so, because the world can get by just fine at $90/bbl for oil.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyberguy1950
You really think GM will still be around in 10yrs.?
Given the low daily driving distance you limited yourself with for this comparison, you wouldn't live long enough to put 100,000 miles on the car.
I actually used the numbers you put out there, just corrected your assumption about magical Impala's getting 29MPG. Besides if I drove a pittling 50 miles a day, that was the number I based it on, it would only take me about 5.5 years to drive 100,000 miles.
Anyway, your point was valid, I was only picking on the math, because you used some poor numbers in the analysis. In general, most of these kinds of cars will never pay for themselves in total cost of ownership. This has been gone over plenty of times before. For instance, gas would need to be $6.50 a gallon before something like a Prius would even begin to pay for itself versus something like a Corolla.
However, the interesting bit with the Volt is the extremely attractive lease offer they have. If you're in a position to buy a new car and your daily driving needs allow you to only use electricity for that driving, the Volt is pretty much the best deal out there, that doesn't come with any of the limitations of a pure electric.
It's new technology and that technology costs money. Someone looking for the most cost effective way (in total dollars) to get from A to B is better served looking elsewhere. However, that fact doesn't really tarnish what the Volt is and what it represents. Some people will be able to justify the cost even if it doesn't work out on a spreadsheet. As Merc has often said in this thread, it doesn't need to be a perfect car for everyone, even if less than 1% of people who drive were to buy one it would be a smashing success. I'm willing to bet that at least 1% of the drivers out there are willing to pay a little more to get a Volt.
As an ASE Master Tech for 25+ years !
My main concern with the vehicle is the batteries,when was the last time any battery on any device lasted as advertised after a year or 2 of constant charging and recharging.
hell, even the lead acid batery in my car has lasted longer than that. Even in my heavily electronic Range rover, the original battery didn't need to be replaced until it was 8 years old. Working with RVs, we've done battery packs that are charged by solar arrays for living in at RV parks, ad ahve seen 10-15 year lifespans even out of lead acid technology. Lithium Ion is even better.
As an aside, the Prius is now in it's 3rd generation (not 3rd year) and so far, toyota has not had to replace a single battery pack for wearing out or warranty purposes, and many of the cars are already at well over 200k miles. For'd been finding the same with the Escape hybrid battery packs.
The heated and cooled battery packs in the Volt should last way longer than that, and bty the time they DO wear out, battery tech will be considerably more advanced, so replacemtn batteries in teh same form factor will be even better (and the old ones are easily recycled).
I can see I'm going to have a lot of the same arguements with you that I have with a number of ASC certified master techs. Very narrow scope of interests, and while there is a lot of specific knowlege of repairs, there's not alot of overall knowledge of the industry or technology.
Your old lead acid battery is also only used to start your car and keep power to the electronics while it's off. Unlike the batteries in a hybrid which is used to actually run the car. lol
Your old lead acid battery is also only used to start your car and keep power to the electronics while it's off.
he said :
Quote:
when was the last time any battery on any device lasted as advertised after a year or 2 of constant charging and recharging
RV deep cycle batteries like I mentioned get charged and discharged daily when living in them. The car battery charges and discharges regulary with the alternator. And neither case is the battery as high tech as teh lithium ion batteries in the Volt or Prius. All I'm doing is disproving his claim of not working after a year or two.
The Volt's batteries, unlike your laptop batteries or phone batteries, are designed to ONLY charge to 90%, and don't get lower than 60% before the generator kicks in. Therefore it doesn't cycle the batteries as much, or as deeply, and since it's Li, it doen't get the memory of NiCad. This was done specificatlly to get the long timeframes required. AND they are temperature managed by liquid cooling/heating to maintain even longer battery life.
As said, Toyota has yet to replace a battery pack in any of the 3 generations of Prius for anything other than accident damage, and some of those cars are over 200k miles already. I'd say THAT is longer than a year or two, as well. GM should easily be in the same position, as the lithium Ion is advanced even from the nickle metal hydride batteries in the Prius.
But yeah, I'm sure those engineers at GM are too stupid to think of possible battery life scenarios that are blatantly obvious to an ASC certified mechanic.. (who's probably never dealt with liquid cooled/heated lithium ion battery packs in his life)
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(who's probably never dealt with liquid cooled/heated lithium ion battery packs in his life)
