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Incidentally, at 3/4 quart every 5,000 miles, at $25.00 per 5 quarts, each 5,000 miles is $3.75 in oil added at the bypass filter element change. Filter element is $2.00. In 5,000 miles my oil use is 1/2 to 1 quart (car has 185,000 miles on it currently). So for every 5,000 miles on this car it's $3.75 + $2.00 + $2.50 for a grand fluid and parts total of $8.25 to $10.75 The oil is clean the whole time from miles zero to mile 5,000. No engine wear.
Every 10,000, it's $20.00 for the report analysis at Blackstone labs. So for every 10,000 miles it's 36.00 to keep the oil completely clean. Oil filter change time is 10 minutes, no drips no mess. Dispose of filter in plastic bag from city disposal center. Further taking the sample for the test is easy, the return line from the bypass filter enters (clean oil) in thru the oil fillter cap at the top of the engine. So you unscrew the cap, hold the cap over the lab container, start the engine for a minute, and the oil flows into the sample cup. 2 minutes for that.
Once you do a few samples, you will convince yourself of the effectiveness of the bypass system. So maybe after 2 or 3 times, the cost of running 10,000 miles with clean oil becomes $16.50 to $20.00 for filters and top up oil.
NOw, think of the savings with a car that runs maybe 6 or 8 quarts of fully synthetic. All to have analytically clean oil all the time.
This information and my narrative should be interesting to many of you. I thought I would share my experience and data on the use of bypass filters on one of my vehicles. Hope it strikes some interest in the concept.
Will it void your engine warranty not changing your oil at the intervals cited in the owners manual?
YES
There are other disadvantages to extending the intervals depending in the engine and emissions.
I also like changing my oil before the TBN values drop.
Will a 7500 mi oil change is recomended for most cars. $36 for 10k mi adjusted for 7500 mi is $27. I spend $24 for a filter and a 5 qt jug semi synthetic. I could get that price down to about $21 if I used group 2 oil which would work just fine too. I personally don't see any value in spendng more and voiding a warranty. Even if your car is out of warranty I just do see the point.
i determined to never change oil again quite some time ago. When you factor in parts, oil, the ahllse of disposing of ould oil, it just is not worth it to mee around and save maybe $8 over paying to have it done. Thus, I have achieved never chaining oil again. I just have someone else do it.
Not worth the risk messing around with questionable products when it comes to oil. It just does nto cost much to have it changed.
Incidentally, at 3/4 quart every 5,000 miles, at $25.00 per 5 quarts, each 5,000 miles is $3.75 in oil added at the bypass filter element change. Filter element is $2.00. In 5,000 miles my oil use is 1/2 to 1 quart (car has 185,000 miles on it currently). So for every 5,000 miles on this car it's $3.75 + $2.00 + $2.50 for a grand fluid and parts total of $8.25 to $10.75 The oil is clean the whole time from miles zero to mile 5,000. No engine wear.
Every 10,000, it's $20.00 for the report analysis at Blackstone labs. So for every 10,000 miles it's 36.00 to keep the oil completely clean. Oil filter change time is 10 minutes, no drips no mess. Dispose of filter in plastic bag from city disposal center. Further taking the sample for the test is easy, the return line from the bypass filter enters (clean oil) in thru the oil fillter cap at the top of the engine. So you unscrew the cap, hold the cap over the lab container, start the engine for a minute, and the oil flows into the sample cup. 2 minutes for that.
Once you do a few samples, you will convince yourself of the effectiveness of the bypass system. So maybe after 2 or 3 times, the cost of running 10,000 miles with clean oil becomes $16.50 to $20.00 for filters and top up oil.
NOw, think of the savings with a car that runs maybe 6 or 8 quarts of fully synthetic. All to have analytically clean oil all the time.
This information and my narrative should be interesting to many of you. I thought I would share my experience and data on the use of bypass filters on one of my vehicles. Hope it strikes some interest in the concept.
So I head on over to the Frantz site and see that the current price of a "complete install Kit" is $215, and $240 if it's the "polished" show car kit.
At your figures, you spend $360 per hundred thousand miles. For a 200,000 mile service life, that's $720 + $240 + install costs (if you pay somebody to install the kit, which many people do) = $960 +
Once on your extended, just add make-up oil and replace the filter program, I'd want to stay on the oil analysis program indefinitely. Otherwise, you have no way of knowing how the oil and engine is holding up.
If I buy a car and change oil at the recommended 7,500 mile interval with dino juice, it costs me $24.95 per oil change interval and I can achieve the same 200,000 mile good service life of the engine for $648.70.
It's rare to find an original owner with 200,000 miles on their car. The average age of the entire USA fleet is now running around 10 years, so with average miles of 12,000 - 15,000 miles, 10 year old cars are at 150,000 miles ... on average. But rarely with the original owner who keeps a car for far fewer years.
Yes, there are car owners ... like myself ... who buy cars with the intent to keep them on the road for much longer ownership intervals, and I don't buy new cars, I buy them with 100,000 miles on them before they depreciate enough to reach my price points. I then put another 150,000 to 200,000 miles on them as a sales rep traveling a 5 state western region. But our use is the exception to the norm, not common ... where I can put 600-800-1,200 miles per week on a car for months on end.
The problem for many car owners is that cars much older than 15 years are typically off the road due to other issues and expenses. Rust belt states don't see cars last that long, and with all the changes in technology over the recent decades, it's justified to buy a replacement car with more features, more safety items, better handling, etc. ... if not simple vanity issues, styling, performance, or other concerns like a tatty interior and beat-up exterior.
Anyway, it's hard to justify the additional expense that you encounter for your Frantz filter and oil analysis program when I can achieve the same effective results on dino juice (run Rotella T in most all of my vehicles with excellent long term results ... even the inside of my '95 Power Stroke engine is spotless, not even a dark film inside the valve covers at 235,000 miles). A clean engine, long term low wear, and low oil consumption. Even the 5.2 Magnum in my Dodge 1 ton RV van conversion at 140,000 miles doesn't use any oil between 5,000 mile oil changes. The chassis, running gear, and van conversion will wear out long before the engine wears out, which will cause me to have to replace it then for my sales vehicle. Can't justify the additional hundreds of dollars to have a potentially "more perfect condition" engine in it when the useful economic service life of the vehicle will be reached long before the engine is an issue.
Maybe in the 1950's and 1960's, the use of a by-pass oil filter could be proven to extend engine life ... but by the 1970's, oil technology and engine metallurgy had been greatly improved. By the 1980's, I saw a lot of cars that could deliver 300,000 mile service life on nothing but routine maintenance.
As it happens, years ago I bought a Frantz aviation STC'ed filter at a hangar clean-out auction. Thought I'd put it on my O-470R, but the IA I was using then refused to add that to the aircraft's stock oil filter due to the time already on the engine. I figured OK, I'll wait until I overhaul that engine. So this last year, when we were putting the engine back into my plane, the IA was asked to install the Frantz filter. He refused. His rationale was that I wouldn't get any benefit from it beyond the routine maintenance and oil change schedule I do now. So the Frantz filter kit still sits in my hangar, gathering dust. And my plane doesn't go through a quart of oil in 20 hours, which is OK consumption by me.
...it don't take much to clog up a 1 Micron oil filter....rendering the whole system useless.
ok....its BYPASS filter (moron) , if it clogs, oils just stops flowing through that section of it...all the motor oil will still flow through the stock filter (you guys are idiots, that's why you are poor)
second....paper (toilet paper) increases its strength in oil (its designed to disintegrate in water, duh, moron, that's why you use it in the toilet bowl. ) in a oil filter...it never "seeps into the engine" or any bs like that.
third....I have these filters installed (for you doubters) and have tests of the oil from Blackstone labs after 5,000, 10,000 20,000 30,000 et. miles stating that the oil in analytically clean, and at the proper PH and viscosity. I only change oils to change viscosity if i feel like it. Otherwise every 3k miles its a change of filter medium (scott 1000 1ply) and 1/2 quart of new oil to replace the volume that was in the old filter. Analytically clean.....that's all that matters. and viscosity (most oils INCREASE in viscosity due to water and then acid buildup, tp filters absorb about 5 oz of water and allow no acids to form) read it this way, if you have no viscosity increase, you have no water in the system (man are you guys just this stupid, old, stuck in your ways? your idiocy on this forum and others like you make me understand why we have a country of non-thinking sheep that let the govt run all over us...you sound so stupid)
That bottom line (idiots) is that these filters work, they work better now with better oils. But they work as intended.
I wonder if you guys who don't do any thinking, don't understand the dynamics of how filter media is affected by oil, don't understand what "analytically clean" means, who claim to be knowledgeable car people are qualified to comment on bypass oil filters.
You have no idea what lengths the auto industry and oil industry goes to keeping you completely ignorant. The oil industry loves when owners of consumer autos and trucks buy new overpriced oil every 7k miles. The love when you buy new cars after 100,00 miles. Its your wealth they are stealing. keep the unfounded criticisms coming, while I become more wealthy than you. idiots. Long haul trucker - bypass systems. Military vehicles...bypass systems....Why do you think? Cause they dont work?
Morons! You should feel as stupid as you sound. Now...change your thinking!
So I head on over to the Frantz site and see that the current price of a "complete install Kit" is $215, and $240 if it's the "polished" show car kit.
At your figures, you spend $360 per hundred thousand miles. For a 200,000 mile service life, that's $720 + $240 + install costs (if you pay somebody to install the kit, which many people do) = $960 +
Once on your extended, just add make-up oil and replace the filter program, I'd want to stay on the oil analysis program indefinitely. Otherwise, you have no way of knowing how the oil and engine is holding up.
If I buy a car and change oil at the recommended 7,500 mile interval with dino juice, it costs me $24.95 per oil change interval and I can achieve the same 200,000 mile good service life of the engine for $648.70.
It's rare to find an original owner with 200,000 miles on their car. The average age of the entire USA fleet is now running around 10 years, so with average miles of 12,000 - 15,000 miles, 10 year old cars are at 150,000 miles ... on average. But rarely with the original owner who keeps a car for far fewer years.
Yes, there are car owners ... like myself ... who buy cars with the intent to keep them on the road for much longer ownership intervals, and I don't buy new cars, I buy them with 100,000 miles on them before they depreciate enough to reach my price points. I then put another 150,000 to 200,000 miles on them as a sales rep traveling a 5 state western region. But our use is the exception to the norm, not common ... where I can put 600-800-1,200 miles per week on a car for months on end.
The problem for many car owners is that cars much older than 15 years are typically off the road due to other issues and expenses. Rust belt states don't see cars last that long, and with all the changes in technology over the recent decades, it's justified to buy a replacement car with more features, more safety items, better handling, etc. ... if not simple vanity issues, styling, performance, or other concerns like a tatty interior and beat-up exterior.
Anyway, it's hard to justify the additional expense that you encounter for your Frantz filter and oil analysis program when I can achieve the same effective results on dino juice (run Rotella T in most all of my vehicles with excellent long term results ... even the inside of my '95 Power Stroke engine is spotless, not even a dark film inside the valve covers at 235,000 miles). A clean engine, long term low wear, and low oil consumption. Even the 5.2 Magnum in my Dodge 1 ton RV van conversion at 140,000 miles doesn't use any oil between 5,000 mile oil changes. The chassis, running gear, and van conversion will wear out long before the engine wears out, which will cause me to have to replace it then for my sales vehicle. Can't justify the additional hundreds of dollars to have a potentially "more perfect condition" engine in it when the useful economic service life of the vehicle will be reached long before the engine is an issue.
Maybe in the 1950's and 1960's, the use of a by-pass oil filter could be proven to extend engine life ... but by the 1970's, oil technology and engine metallurgy had been greatly improved. By the 1980's, I saw a lot of cars that could deliver 300,000 mile service life on nothing but routine maintenance.
As it happens, years ago I bought a Frantz aviation STC'ed filter at a hangar clean-out auction. Thought I'd put it on my O-470R, but the IA I was using then refused to add that to the aircraft's stock oil filter due to the time already on the engine. I figured OK, I'll wait until I overhaul that engine. So this last year, when we were putting the engine back into my plane, the IA was asked to install the Frantz filter. He refused. His rationale was that I wouldn't get any benefit from it beyond the routine maintenance and oil change schedule I do now. So the Frantz filter kit still sits in my hangar, gathering dust. And my plane doesn't go through a quart of oil in 20 hours, which is OK consumption by me.
Your engine oil will always be analytically clean..from hour or mile 0 (at the oil change) the the next 200 hours or 2 to 4000 miles in a car.
What is the value to compression, having no wear, effciency, heat distribution of having analytically clean oil all the time?
Wouldn't that be priceless ? Obviously.
It's very clear that most contributors on this forum just don't THINK very much or in depth at all. It's truly sad to see this.
Your engine oil will always be analytically clean..from hour or mile 0 (at the oil change) the the next 200 hours or 2 to 4000 miles in a car.
What is the value to compression, having no wear, effciency, heat distribution of having analytically clean oil all the time?
Wouldn't that be priceless ? Obviously.
It's very clear that most contributors on this forum just don't THINK very much or in depth at all. It's truly sad to see this.
It's very clear that this poster doesn't understand the economics of car maintenance and operation as I described.
At the time I'd posted that, I'd had over 35 years of owning my own shop maintaining fleets of M-B diesel and gasoline powered cars. So I had a long track record of seeing how long the cars were kept in service. I had law firms, doctors practices, architects, and pro sales fleets (and private owners, too) that racked up hundreds of thousands of miles on their company cars and on their personal use cars from their offices. I did enough recon work for the local M-B resales specialists (and an M-B dealership used car department) to see some of my customer's cars through multiple owners and 3-4-500,000 miles (or more, on a few) of service.
Some of those customers were Frantz filter users. Their cars achieved a useful economic life to the similar cars of the fleet but at a higher cost ... but no particularly longer life span, no improvement in fuel economy, no better cold weather diesel starting performance (a function of retaining compression to spec, which is a wear issue), and so forth. The Frantz filter equipped cars did not deliver any better long term engine wear performance than the stock cars with OE filters and routine per manufacturer's spec oil change intervals.
Bottom line was that there was no economic benefit to using the Frantz filters. The engine lifespans were comparable and the rest of the car ... which derives no benefit from the Frantz filter ... still wore out at the same rate.
FWIW, genius, economics aren't your forte ... the Frantz filter doesn't do a damn thing for the transmission, suspension, engine cooling system (radiator or water pump), electrical systems/electronics/batteries, interior materials, chassis wear items, or any other wear or consumable items in the cars. It wouldn't matter if the Frantz filter yields a multi-million mile engine life ... the rest of the car reaches it's economic lifespan a lot sooner than that.
But thanks for the laugh of dredging up a very old thread on C-D and showing us how little you know about operating and owning a car.
PS: in the world of pro transportation, anything that will actually lower long term operating costs with a decent ROI is something that the industry will adopt very quickly to save money. I've been around pro trucking for over 50 years now, and have yet to see Frantz filters installed on any fleet, nor have I seen them installed on taxi fleets, police fleets, or in-city trucking fleets.
ok....its BYPASS filter (moron) , if it clogs, oils just stops flowing through that section of it...all the motor oil will still flow through the stock filter (you guys are idiots, that's why you are poor)
second....paper (toilet paper) increases its strength in oil (its designed to disintegrate in water, duh, moron, that's why you use it in the toilet bowl. ) in a oil filter...it never "seeps into the engine" or any bs like that.
third....I have these filters installed (for you doubters) and have tests of the oil from Blackstone labs after 5,000, 10,000 20,000 30,000 et. miles stating that the oil in analytically clean, and at the proper PH and viscosity. I only change oils to change viscosity if i feel like it. Otherwise every 3k miles its a change of filter medium (scott 1000 1ply) and 1/2 quart of new oil to replace the volume that was in the old filter. Analytically clean.....that's all that matters. and viscosity (most oils INCREASE in viscosity due to water and then acid buildup, tp filters absorb about 5 oz of water and allow no acids to form) read it this way, if you have no viscosity increase, you have no water in the system (man are you guys just this stupid, old, stuck in your ways? your idiocy on this forum and others like you make me understand why we have a country of non-thinking sheep that let the govt run all over us...you sound so stupid)
That bottom line (idiots) is that these filters work, they work better now with better oils. But they work as intended.
I wonder if you guys who don't do any thinking, don't understand the dynamics of how filter media is affected by oil, don't understand what "analytically clean" means, who claim to be knowledgeable car people are qualified to comment on bypass oil filters.
You have no idea what lengths the auto industry and oil industry goes to keeping you completely ignorant. The oil industry loves when owners of consumer autos and trucks buy new overpriced oil every 7k miles. The love when you buy new cars after 100,00 miles. Its your wealth they are stealing. keep the unfounded criticisms coming, while I become more wealthy than you. idiots. Long haul trucker - bypass systems. Military vehicles...bypass systems....Why do you think? Cause they dont work?
Morons! You should feel as stupid as you sound. Now...change your thinking!
1: there is no need to be insulting
2: you have little clue as to why oil needs to be changed on a regular basis
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillS500000
Your engine oil will always be analytically clean..from hour or mile 0 (at the oil change) the the next 200 hours or 2 to 4000 miles in a car.
What is the value to compression, having no wear, effciency, heat distribution of having analytically clean oil all the time?
Wouldn't that be priceless ? Obviously.
It's very clear that most contributors on this forum just don't THINK very much or in depth at all. It's truly sad to see this.
while oil never loses its lubricity, and while the toilet paper filter can keep the oil clean for long periods of time, the reason oil needs to be changed on a regular basis is because the additive package in the oil breaks down and loses its effectiveness. without that additive package, metal parts wear faster, and that in itself causes many problems.
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are you guys frickin stupid or what
...it don't take much to clog up a 1 Micron oil filter....rendering the whole system useless.
