Nice cars, no snobbery (luxury car, minivan, credit, driver)
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Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
8,852 posts, read 10,455,696 times
Reputation: 6670
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Originally Posted by HandsUpThumbsDown
The only list Saab should be on is "worst money pits."
(Recovering Saab addict).
I hear 'ya, though am currently only on my second one (the 2 liter turbo convertible) and have still been pretty lucky (so far... knock-knock)! But what do I know, having also once owned a string of 'British Leyland' products ("Lucas, Prince of Darkness") AND Fiats ("Fix It Again Tony")!
I had two Saabs too, '86 and '88 Turbo 9000s. I loved those cars. I kept my second one for 12 years and had 180K miles on it when I traded it. It was just getting too expensive to maintain with little things going bad -- A.C., heater leak, etc. It handled like a sports car and carried stuff like a pickup (with the rear seats down).
I picked Acura. I always thought of them as Hondas, but a friend of mine had one, and I was really impressed with it. Very nice car... years ago. I drive an F250 and never look at cars, but my son and his wife just bought two new Cadillacs last month. I guess I don't think of them as cheap cars because they used to be, well, the Cadillacs of automobiles.
VW owners has some of the most stuck up people driving them.
I sold VW's and also had a tuned Jetta mk4 when those were the current models, and will say this... there are a large number of younger middle class folks who buy Jettas, Golfs, Beetles or entry-level Passats who really aren't snobby or stuck up; however, the people who went for Touaregs, Beetle convertibles, loaded Passats, R32's and other GTI's - basically, any of the more "specialty" models - were often snobbier than the people I worked with when I sold Lexus by a fairly wide margin.
The VW tuning crowd - not the vintage enthusiast crowd, but the modern tuning and performance crowd - are a tricky bunch. They seem to think that their cars have the prestige and performance of BMW's and Audis, and when you point out that they make less bhp than a 328i and are still FWD, they'll tell you that at least they're better than a Honda - though Hondas are lighter, more powerful, and more reliable... to which they snivel, "yeah, but it's a Honda!"
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Lexus/Acura/Honda the same thing.
Don't agree with this at all. The average MBZ/BMW driver versus the average Lexus driver...? Nah. Acuras? They have very little prestige, less than an Infiniti even, and so the people that are driving them are rarely snobby about them.
The average Honda owner is someone who's just middle-of-the-road and bought their car because it's reliable, fuel-efficient, and sensible. There are plenty of kids in the Honda tuning scene who have disdain for everything that isn't a Honda or Nissan, but they usually grow out of it and aren't the typical Honda buyer.
I checked "Subaru" among others personally, because Subarus project an image of outdoorsiness that draws a certain customer to them, the same way that a BMW projects an image of performance that draws a certain customer... a Subaru driver in Seattle or Portland is like a BMW or Audi driver in LA.
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The reason you don't see any snobs driving Buicks and Caddys is because they are usually of an older generation.
That, and they lost most of the prestige when they became badge-engineered, FWD, compact pieces of junk. I really don't know why they didn't axe Buick instead of Pontiac... but whatever. Caddy is definitely coming back: IMHO their new designs look great and if nothing else are certainly distinctive and look like nothing else on the road, and they've also finally created a line of performance models that actually have performance; a necessity for a highline carmaker, these days.
Wow. Some folks really care too much about what other people think of their cars. Maybe it's time to forget the cage you're driving, step outside and engage in a real conversation once in a while.
After all, a disabled Cadillac parked by the side of the road is no less inert than a buffalo skull, while a Honda Civic that starts every morning and gets you where you want to go is performing its sole function. Beautifully.
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
8,852 posts, read 10,455,696 times
Reputation: 6670
Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k
Don't agree with this at all. The average MBZ/BMW driver versus the average Lexus driver...? Nah. Acuras? They have very little prestige, less than an Infiniti even, and so the people that are driving them are rarely snobby about them.
The average Honda owner is someone who's just middle-of-the-road and bought their car because it's reliable, fuel-efficient, and sensible. There are plenty of kids in the Honda tuning scene who have disdain for everything that isn't a Honda or Nissan, but they usually grow out of it and aren't the typical Honda buyer.
Yes, for all their reliability, etc., Hondas do seem to have a sort of "generic" quality about them, that reminds me a bit your typical non-descript computer or cellphone... all essentially disposable hi-technology that's no more than an "appliance". Would personally much prefer something with a little flair or passion any day, even if they're kinda quirky or more maintenance-intensive, especially as someone who actually enjoys driving.
BTW, speaking of "snobbery", has anyone seen those new Toyota Camrys with the paddle shifters on the steering wheel? Dunno why that cracks me up, but I suppose even Camry owners are entitled to feel a little "sporty" now and then!
Yes, for all their reliability, etc., Hondas do seem to have a sort of "generic" quality about them, that reminds me a bit your typical non-descript computer or cellphone... all essentially disposable hi-technology that's no more than an "appliance". Would personally much prefer something with a little flair or passion any day, even if they're kinda quirky or more maintenance-intensive, especially as someone who actually enjoys driving.
I'm a pretty hardcore car enthusiast and don't have any specific badge allegiance: I would have rather have had my VW Jetta VR6 than a Honda Civic, but I would rather have my Honda S2000 than a VW R32. IMHO, a Jetta GL, entry-level 3-series or C-class, or a Malibu or Fusion are as generic and appliancey as an Accord.
Even though at the end of the day, my ideal canyon carver is a lightweight, high-HP, high-revving RWD 2-seater with no traction control, there is something to be said about taking a FWD four-door up to the canyons and using it to cream Mustangs, Camaros, Civics, and basically anything else that comes your way. Even before engine mods, I had a lot of fun embarrassing people in my Jetta. Learning to eke out every last dab of performance from a car that wasn't necessarily meant to perform is a hoot.
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BTW, speaking of "snobbery", has anyone seen those new Toyota Camrys with the paddle shifters on the steering wheel? Dunno why that cracks me up, but I suppose even Camry owners are entitled to feel a little "sporty" now and then!
Well, truth be told, the current Camry V6's have fairly gutsy engines (268bhp) with variable valve timing that offer pretty decent pickup - 0-60 in 6 seconds, basically the same as a BMW 328i. I'm sure that there are more than a few guys out there who would have loved to have gotten something a bit sporty, but got vetoed by the Mrs. - that's how I ended up with my Jetta. I really wanted the S2000, but failing that, I was willing to accept a GTI, Civic Si, or a used 3-series. She wanted a base-model Jetta, or a bare-bones Subaru wagon, because she viewed cars as an appliance that was to be used - enjoyment be damned. The Jetta with a GTI engine was a compromise, and one that I was ultimately reasonably happy with (it still had a stick, at least).
Although I'm not a fan of the flippy-paddles, whether it's controlling an automatic or it's actuating a DSG/dual-clutch setup, I will say that on current cars they at least work fairly well. When they first started popping up on BMW's and Lexus' in the late 90's and early 00's, they were basically useless because by the time that it thought about it, it would have already shifted on its own anyway. They were really only good for downshifting when going down a mountain. Modern ones are much, much faster; still not a substitute for a clutch, though.
I think Buick, Volvo, and Hyundai have the least snob appeal. They all make great cars and it is a pretty good spread of niches - Buick for more luxury / comfort, Volvo for more sporty, and Hyundai for tech and general well-built cars.
I also think Volkswagen has pretty good quality, though I've yet to meet anyone save one person I know who has NOT had problems with a German car's electrical and onboard radio/GPS/entertainment system. For whatever reason, they just can't get it right. If you want less snob appeal, VW has you covered.
And another brand would be Ford. Personally, they've for the past 8 years or so done superbly well with their smaller cars.
Another brand I'd consider not snobby but well put together is Chevy. Yes, Chevy. I drove their Cruze and was floored. For years I thought of most American cars as poorly built gas-guzzling hogs that make a lot of noise and not much else and break apart every 30k miles. Not anymore. I almost got the Cruze, but the Fusion came away.
Again I was floored. I test drove a Cruze, Dodge Dart, Honda Fit and Civic, Toyota Camry, Mitsubishi Lancer, Ford Fusion, Focus, Subaru Forester and Legacy, and out of all those I test drove, I brought home the Fusion. The Cruze had the fuel efficiency but not the looks, the Dart had the looks and efficiency but not the oomph, the Fit was weird to drive, the Civic was just not my taste style wise, the Camry was like OMG terrible, the Mitsubishi was a BLAST but you could feel every little bump in the road and after 6 years in a Z4 I was ready for something else more compliant, the Subarus were terrible riding surprisingly and felt chunky in the steering at low speed and just would have been tiring on long road trips (note those were 2013 models except the Fusion, that model year has been delayed wehre I live).
the fact I got a screaming deal on the 2012 model year Fusion was also part of it. Basically got it for dealer invoice. Now's the time to scoop up prior model years new off the lot.
So, for what it's worth, I think most cars made domestically now have low snob appeal (except specific models like the Corvette) and are well made. There's very little difference between the brands now; each have their foibles and their good points.
BMWs, Audi, and Merc all have HUGE snob appeal. Audi probably least of them.
Over here Land Rover are seen much differently. The big Yuppie ones you refer to are known as Range Rovers over here and yeah, they're known as prestige cars.
One of these pics' I drove for the last 3 years and the other I own. Neither are viewed as prestige vehicles and the second one is what most people think of when you say "I have a Land Rover".
Very, very few Defenders ever made it to the States -- maybe a couple thousand total. They haven't been sold here for 15 years and yet they still fetch anywhere from 40 to nearly 100 grand on the secondary market.
As for the rest of the Land Rovers... Discovery, DiscoII, LR3, LR4... over here they're considered just as much of a berkmobile as a Range Rover. Legitimate offroad capabilities be damned, 98% of them never see anything more challenging than a gravel road.
Very, very few Defenders ever made it to the States -- maybe a couple thousand total. They haven't been sold here for 15 years and yet they still fetch anywhere from 40 to nearly 100 grand on the secondary market.
As for the rest of the Land Rovers... Discovery, DiscoII, LR3, LR4... over here they're considered just as much of a berkmobile as a Range Rover. Legitimate offroad capabilities be damned, 98% of them never see anything more challenging than a gravel road.
If they've even seen that. I know guys with Rovers who are scared to drive them in the snow.
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