Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I think I would just do business with someone else.... they are too sneaky for me
a dealer DOC fee is commonplace, this compensates them for doing the tag paperwork (or having their $9.00/hr office girl do it)
$50-100 is pretty standard.... $65 is the standard in my area,,,, though some charge $99
back in Florida when i worked at a chevy store we charged (or tried to) charge $399.00 doc fee. many customers refused to pay it so we would waive it or knock it down to $175 but then just make it up in the "box" when the buyer went to the F&I office to close the deal they would add 1/4 of a % point to their rate and that more than covered the $399 loss
but then again... they would try to do that even if the customer paid the $399 doc fee
but a delivery fee? $1,000? that's crazy, unless you are referring to the Destination Fee as found on the window sticker from the factory
A destination fee is standard on all cars and is listed clearly on the big sticker from the factory.... beware delivery fees or any other bogus fees often found on a second smaller side sticker (called a "bump" sticker in the industry)
They did have a doc fee listed in the total summary, which I was OK with. Maryland allows them to charge up to $300 which is what they charged. Otherwise, yes, there was an additional "freight fee", which I assume would mean the same as a delivery fee. But its on a used car that they purchased locally as assumed from the Carfax. And even if it was transported from further away, I still feel it was a bogus charge to tack on.
After experiencing this in the past, I've always negotiated an "out the door" price. It's a remarkably easy way to cut through all the shell games dealers play. I also negotiate with several dealers at once - it shifts the balance of power from them to you.
Same here.
When I got my new car, I looked at the info, asked for the "off the lot" price, we haggled a little, then I got the check. No hassle, no new charges popping up.
Oh, and my husband got up and left to "go look at the cars" lol.
All fees are nonsense. The dealer is making money even if they sell at invoice. IF you are even negotiating fees they win.
The only way to be sure is to negotiate with several dealers simultaneously. That way you can play them off against each other and completely ignore the make up of the price. This is hugely painful but if you do it on the phone and in email you will reduce the burden you feel. Just be patient and firm and don't let them talk you into coming into the dealer. Know that you will need to ask them for their "best" price at least 3 X.
You can't really play off other dealers when you're buying a used car. If I have a blue 2yr old model with 20K miles on it, what are the odds the dealer down the street will have the same thing. New cars it's easier.
I had a GM rep say you had a new car dealership to sell used cars. People assumed they were trade ins, and they couldn't get the "invoice" price online or in a book in the supermarket. If it had a scratch and the buyer complained you just responded, "It's a used car." No worry about a dealer delivery questionaire the factory sent the buyer 6wks down the road. Usually made more money on used cars.
Many years ago a very wise man advised me the best "negotiator" when purchasing a vehicle is your BACK.
In other words, don't argue, don't quibble, don't get upset and, above all, don't appear overly anxious . . . just WALK AWAY.
Excellent advice. I usually negotiate from a cash position, and on more than one occasion a dealer has come back with "add ons" after settling on a price, at which point I explain that the price we agreed on was all that I was going to pay and I didn't care what they had to do with the numbers on the papers I would absolutely not pay any more. If they did not budge, I walked. When I have done that, I got a call the next day from management, agreeing to sell at the number we came to, with no additions.
But, if you do it, you have to be prepared to meet a stubborn idiot and let the deal go.
Most dealers play games like that. They usually call it a "documentation" fee.
Always negotiate for an "out the door bottom line price with no additional fees."
Absolutely Correct. Thank you.
For you youngsters - there never used to be a documentation fee. Was added for those who think that they are getting a real "deal".
I always ask for the "out the door" price - with all added fees. Minus state and local taxes and fees.
In some states - mostly new cars - there is a 2nd window sticker with "paint sealant" "fabric care" etc.
All a joke.
You have to be prepared to walk. Can't emphasize this enough.
Was with a friend who was purchasing a new pickup truck. Went to local dealer with a newspaper ad for a dealership from out of state - that listed an "out the door" price.
Showed that to local dealer and they matched that price - "out the door" price.
BUT, at the very very very end. After READING the documents - there was an added $75.00 fee. Not a lot of money. But some added money. Friend paid the extras $75.00 because he wasn't ready to "walk away". And note, he would have gotten that $75.00 removed if he walked away. Might have taken a couple of extra days for the "phone call" to return. To friend, it wasn't worth it to come back another day. He wanted truck NOW.
Location: Butler County Ohio and Winters in Florida
929 posts, read 2,726,767 times
Reputation: 635
I agree with everyone above.
It is just dealership non sense.
Same goes for dealership service department shop supplies.
Dealerships should price their cars right up front . If they need another 1K or $300 , or what ever , say so upfront either by placing an additional price sheet on the window or as soon as a customer sits down to talk.
bluebiker wrote: "You can't really play off other dealers when you're buying a used car. If I have a blue 2yr old model with 20K miles on it, what are the odds the dealer down the street will have the same thing"
On the contrary, if you're looking at fairly common cars ... the likelihood of comparable cars at multiple dealerships in most markets is very high.
Case in point: We recently needed to trade out of Mrs Sun's 2000 Subie OBW 300,000 mile car for a newer Subie. We headed to a major marketplace area in Colorado and found over 25 acceptable cars. Essentially, all were 2005-7 Subie OBW's with miles and colors that were acceptable to us.
The bottom line was price/miles/condition variance between the cars. We're not too fussy about color ... almost anything but black. The balance of the deal was finding the right condition vs price differential with our trade-in. I had 3 dealers calling me back for days about their inventory of suitable cars after I'd called them re the yr/model we were seeking. The car prices were essentially the same; the difference in the deal we made was getting $1,000 more for our trade-in than offered at other dealers so the "out the door" cost was the lowest of the bunch.
Unless you're seeking an unusual car with a non-negotiable set of requirements in your used car buy search ... a rare car or a specific color/option package ... and are flexible about what will meet your requirements ... there's a lot of merchandise out there to choose from. I recently assisted a neighbor in his Porsche selection/pre-buy inspection ... you'd think that there was a limited selection of these around. He found 10 cars in the model/options/colors that were acceptable to him to look at, and that was after narrowing his search to a few years of production and series (Boxster's) in the high teens/low 20's price range. His final choice was a garage queen that had never seen inclement weather roads and had full service records, no damage history. But there were a couple of comparable cars in price/condition that had been driven in all weather and had no damage at the same price.
For you youngsters - there never used to be a documentation fee. Was added for those who think that they are getting a real "deal".
I always ask for the "out the door" price - with all added fees. Minus state and local taxes and fees.
In some states - mostly new cars - there is a 2nd window sticker with "paint sealant" "fabric care" etc.
All a joke.
You have to be prepared to walk. Can't emphasize this enough.
Was with a friend who was purchasing a new pickup truck. Went to local dealer with a newspaper ad for a dealership from out of state - that listed an "out the door" price.
Showed that to local dealer and they matched that price - "out the door" price.
BUT, at the very very very end. After READING the documents - there was an added $75.00 fee. Not a lot of money. But some added money. Friend paid the extras $75.00 because he wasn't ready to "walk away". And note, he would have gotten that $75.00 removed if he walked away. Might have taken a couple of extra days for the "phone call" to return. To friend, it wasn't worth it to come back another day. He wanted truck NOW.
If the "freight fee" was, say, $100, I would've been willing to possibly eat the cost. But $1000 is egregious. Also, please note that this was separate from the documenting fee ($300 max as per Maryland law).
So, I'm searching for a newer car for my wife. Found a nice used car online and went to the dealership to take a look and possibly buy. I was able to negotiate $1000 off of the car, which bought the cost to the price that I had in mind. We get to the paperwork and I'm reviewing the fees and wondering why their total isn't matching mine after tax, tag, title, doc fee, etc. They have a $995 "freight fee" listed in a separate line somewhere else, outside of the tax, tag, etc. total summary. I call BS on the fee, ask them to remove it and, although they did reduce it after several salesman "trips to see the manager", I eventually walked out.
Would you all agree that this fee is nonsense? I've heard of delivery fees on new cars, that the manufacturer might charge to deliver the vehicle to the dealership. But a "freight" fee (which is, I'm assuming, the same thing) on a used car? The car was local as well, according to Carfax. I still think its BS. The salesman, annoyed and a bit ruffled, gruffed at me as I was leaving, "we'll get more for the thing by selling it wholesale anyway!" I continued out the door.
I'm from the age when you saw "ADP" on the new car sticker with no explaining what it was (It stood for "Additional Dealer Profit" (NO KIDDING!) and many buyers didn't ask what it meant or the dealership would lie and then when the buyer rooted further they'd remove it and say "Hey we're cutting you a better deal now, shut up!" and further digging finds the answer and by that time, you are so disgusted with them...you leave vowing to never deal with them...
Luckily my brother sells cars for a living. I bring him into the dealership every time I'm buying . He just saved me 3000 off msrp of a new honda civic plus 1.9% financing . They actually had a 400 fee on the ticket because they said they had to spray the car with this protective coating.... he got that removed along with other retarded fees.
Back to your story. On a used car. There should be no freight fee unless it was in another state and had to be brought to you.. Ge that removed. Used cars are always marked up for profit.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
