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So, I'm searching for a newer car for my wife. Found a nice used car online and went to the dealership to take a look and possibly buy. I was able to negotiate $1000 off of the car, which bought the cost to the price that I had in mind. We get to the paperwork and I'm reviewing the fees and wondering why their total isn't matching mine after tax, tag, title, doc fee, etc. They have a $995 "freight fee" listed in a separate line somewhere else, outside of the tax, tag, etc. total summary. I call BS on the fee, ask them to remove it and, although they did reduce it after several salesman "trips to see the manager", I eventually walked out.
Would you all agree that this fee is nonsense? I've heard of delivery fees on new cars, that the manufacturer might charge to deliver the vehicle to the dealership. But a "freight" fee (which is, I'm assuming, the same thing) on a used car? The car was local as well, according to Carfax. I still think its BS. The salesman, annoyed and a bit ruffled, gruffed at me as I was leaving, "we'll get more for the thing by selling it wholesale anyway!" I continued out the door.
So, I'm searching for a newer car for my wife. Found a nice used car online and went to the dealership to take a look and possibly buy. I was able to negotiate $1000 off of the car, which bought the cost to the price that I had in mind. We get to the paperwork and I'm reviewing the fees and wondering why their total isn't matching mine after tax, tag, title, doc fee, etc. They have a $995 "freight fee" listed in a separate line somewhere else, outside of the tax, tag, etc. total summary. I call BS on the fee, ask them to remove it and, although they did reduce it after several salesman "trips to see the manager", I eventually walked out.
Would you all agree that this fee is nonsense? I've heard of delivery fees on new cars, that the manufacturer might charge to deliver the vehicle to the dealership. But a "freight" fee (which is, I'm assuming, the same thing) on a used car? The car was local as well, according to Carfax. I still think its BS. The salesman, annoyed and a bit ruffled, gruffed at me as I was leaving, "we'll get more for the thing by selling it wholesale anyway!" I continued out the door.
That sounds like just a scam to add a $1000 back on to the price of the car. It's like the doc fee, that's just a fee the house adds to make a $100 or so.
I equate that to taking your dog to the vet and they tell you to bring a stool sample, then charge a hazardous waste disposal fee separately. Places have become creative in ways to nickel and dime you with added fees.
The comment about wholesaling it for more money would tell me to star far away from this dealer.
Ask for another $1000 off to counteract the fact that they are going to tack it on anyway. If they refuse and you aren't happy, take your business elsewhere. Ask the next place you go upfront if they have any other processing/deliver/doc/extra proft fees so you won't be surprised at something that is typical these days.
So, I'm searching for a newer car for my wife. Found a nice used car online and went to the dealership to take a look and possibly buy. I was able to negotiate $1000 off of the car, which bought the cost to the price that I had in mind. We get to the paperwork and I'm reviewing the fees and wondering why their total isn't matching mine after tax, tag, title, doc fee, etc. They have a $995 "freight fee" listed in a separate line somewhere else, outside of the tax, tag, etc. total summary. I call BS on the fee, ask them to remove it and, although they did reduce it after several salesman "trips to see the manager", I eventually walked out.
Would you all agree that this fee is nonsense? I've heard of delivery fees on new cars, that the manufacturer might charge to deliver the vehicle to the dealership. But a "freight" fee (which is, I'm assuming, the same thing) on a used car? The car was local as well, according to Carfax. I still think its BS. The salesman, annoyed and a bit ruffled, gruffed at me as I was leaving, "we'll get more for the thing by selling it wholesale anyway!" I continued out the door.
All fees are nonsense. The dealer is making money even if they sell at invoice. IF you are even negotiating fees they win.
The only way to be sure is to negotiate with several dealers simultaneously. That way you can play them off against each other and completely ignore the make up of the price. This is hugely painful but if you do it on the phone and in email you will reduce the burden you feel. Just be patient and firm and don't let them talk you into coming into the dealer. Know that you will need to ask them for their "best" price at least 3 X.
I think I would just do business with someone else.... they are too sneaky for me
a dealer DOC fee is commonplace, this compensates them for doing the tag paperwork (or having their $9.00/hr office girl do it)
$50-100 is pretty standard.... $65 is the standard in my area,,,, though some charge $99
back in Florida when i worked at a chevy store we charged (or tried to) charge $399.00 doc fee. many customers refused to pay it so we would waive it or knock it down to $175 but then just make it up in the "box" when the buyer went to the F&I office to close the deal they would add 1/4 of a % point to their rate and that more than covered the $399 loss
but then again... they would try to do that even if the customer paid the $399 doc fee
but a delivery fee? $1,000? that's crazy, unless you are referring to the Destination Fee as found on the window sticker from the factory
A destination fee is standard on all cars and is listed clearly on the big sticker from the factory.... beware delivery fees or any other bogus fees often found on a second smaller side sticker (called a "bump" sticker in the industry)
After experiencing this in the past, I've always negotiated an "out the door" price. It's a remarkably easy way to cut through all the shell games dealers play. I also negotiate with several dealers at once - it shifts the balance of power from them to you.
All fees are nonsense. The dealer is making money even if they sell at invoice. IF you are even negotiating fees they win.
The only way to be sure is to negotiate with several dealers simultaneously. That way you can play them off against each other and completely ignore the make up of the price. This is hugely painful but if you do it on the phone and in email you will reduce the burden you feel. Just be patient and firm and don't let them talk you into coming into the dealer. Know that you will need to ask them for their "best" price at least 3 X.
Quote:
Originally Posted by azsportpilot
I think I would just do business with someone else.... they are too sneaky for me
a dealer DOC fee is commonplace, this compensates them for doing the tag paperwork (or having their $9.00/hr office girl do it)
$50-100 is pretty standard.... $65 is the standard in my area,,,, though some charge $99
back in Florida when i worked at a chevy store we charged (or tried to) charge $399.00 doc fee. many customers refused to pay it so we would waive it or knock it down to $175 but then just make it up in the "box" when the buyer went to the F&I office to close the deal they would add 1/4 of a % point to their rate and that more than covered the $399 loss
but then again... they would try to do that even if the customer paid the $399 doc fee
but a delivery fee? $1,000? that's crazy, unless you are referring to the Destination Fee as found on the window sticker from the factory
A destination fee is standard on all cars and is listed clearly on the big sticker from the factory.... beware delivery fees or any other bogus fees often found on a second smaller side sticker (called a "bump" sticker in the industry)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TWG1572
After experiencing this in the past, I've always negotiated an "out the door" price. It's a remarkably easy way to cut through all the shell games dealers play. I also negotiate with several dealers at once - it shifts the balance of power from them to you.
ITS A USED CAR...
and yes its bogus. They were trying to add back in the commission by calling it something else. Good job on walking away.
For us, it's all about the out-the-door price inlcuding all taxes, fees, and registration costs. Have actually had a salesman say that they always chaerged the document prep fee, but he could give us a discount for that amount on the sales price instead, and we just kind of shrugged and agreed. If the all-in price is good, however their back office wants to sort out the numbers is their thing and not mine.
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