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yes, range can get reduced in cold weather due to the electric cost of heating the batteries and using electric heating elements to warm up the cabin (though heated seats use very little power). But an AWD tesla or other EV with decent tires can do just fine in the snow as that video shows.
Power, awd, and tires are what they are regardless of what is powering them. I believe it is the range, availability, and rate of recharging that’s the problem.
Power, awd, and tires are what they are regardless of what is powering them. I believe it is the range, availability, and rate of recharging that’s the problem.
Did you READ the part I was responding to?? I agreed about the range being decreased slightly, but the parts I was responding to had nothing to do with range or rate of recharging (which he actually never mentioned). In your haste to be anti-EV you start all sorts of straw man arguments, Ziggy.
Teslas seem to be doing fine in cold climates, both in Canada and Europe, as far as drivability. Other EV manufacturers will follow with AWD chassis. And like you said, then it's just a matter of good tires getting you around in the winter.
It is like you just keep repeating stuff and ignore facts. People sometimes buy stuff because they like it and don't buy it because it's cool. Many modern SUV's not only offer more safety but just as good of a driving experience and decent mpg. Is a hybrid RAV4 evil just because it's bigger than a Prius? Lol...Is a Fusion bad because it doesn't get 30mpg? How dare they buy one....
Do you think everyone that buys a Tesla, Prius or Smartcar buys them without any c onsider of their peers???
Yeah, that is why I said “when those are options.” I live in a rural area myself. People can reduce gas consumption in more than one way. Mine is to drive fewer miles despite living in a rural area. No technology is required, it is voluntary, and *I* decide what vehicle best fits my life.
I was phrasing the points in the same manner as the OP (“what will it take for people to...”), but I do not agree that heavyhanded dictation of lifestyle is a good thing.
I love these threads. Between the faction shrieking MY COLD DEAD HANDS (for no particular reason) and those who probably furiously argued that property values would never go down ca. 2008, I keep running out of popcorn.
How do you KNOW about what "most" use it for? Do you see the same people every day?
Do you live in NJ? How would you know what I know in my own area?
The soccer moms in their SUVs arent hauling trash to the dump like you are. Trash haulers are not what Im talking about.
I drive a 2005 Ford Expedition 4x4. My wife drives a 2011 Lincoln Navigator 4x4. We have 4 children, 3 dogs, and live an active lifestyle. There isn't anyway we could do what we do, in a car. Would we like something with better mileage, absolutely. We looked at smaller 7 passenger vehicles, they all had the same problem. No space behind the 3rd row seat for storage and cramped rear seats.
We have to use a rear hitch basket, and a top luggage rack basket, to hold all of our luggage when we go on vacation because the dogs need the rear cargo area to lay down. I would love to own a sports car, but it won't happen until the kids are grown. Unfortunately, the Tesla SUV costs over 110k, and our budget for vehicles is 30k. So we will continue to purchase and drive large, pre-owned SUV's for at least the next 10 years.
Now thats what those large SUVs were made for.
But theres no way theres as many ultra large families as there are gigantic SUVs produced.
Anyway thats the beauty of choice in this country. You can get something big just because you like big SUVs.
The difference between $2.50 and $5.00 a gallon is about $2000 per year for most people with a big pick up or SUV (at about 15 mpg), not to mention that gas has never hit $5 a gallon except maybe in LA and Chicago. While $2000 may cause some people to reduce excess driving, it is hardly going to render trucks vans and SUVs undrivable.
I can cut table TV and drive around in my truck instead helping people move things or pulling them out of ditches, or go out on some forest trail or through a field somewhere to a lake or woods location that few others can reach, haul out canoe or kayaks (before they were stolen) to a lake, have more fun than watching crap on TV, and come out ahead on money.
Also I can comfortably take five people or four and a dog plus all their luggage and a tent, dog crate, coolers, food, bedding, etc on a road trip, have more fun and save money on hotels and save on gas compared to taking the same road trip with the five Honda civics you would need to haul the same amount of people and stuff (not to mention everyone in the Civics would be far more cramped and uncomfortable the whole trip). Not real clear on how driving five Honda civics to the same location is more efficient than driving one pick up, but maybe you can splain that to me. Seems like those civic drivers are being far less green and should get out and get a pick up like the rest of us environmentally conscious drivers.
If you can afford a $60,000 pick up, or even a $20,000 used pick up, then $2000 a year is not going to ground you.
I drive a fancy pants RAM Laramie pick up. I am a somewhat overweight office worker. I often drive my truck on paved roads. However I also drive my truck on dirt roads, trails, or fields. I fill the bed with rocks, branches, manure, homecoming queens, furniture, tools, dusty bags of construction materials (meaning readimix), plywood, sheetrock, lumber, camping gear, dogs, tables, chairs and tents, logs, dirt, luggage, jugs of water, beer and soda, ice. . . us fat office workers have a right to a rugged life too if we wish. Also I frequently pull frightened little sedans out of the ditches in the winter time, so you should be glad I have a big wasteful pick up and you do not have to freeze for five hours waiting your turn for a tow truck (I also pull out SUVS and even some pick up on occasions). More often lately I find those little sedans containing drivers who thought they could make it through the "puddle" only to discover the puddle is 20" deep and the little sedan will not continue running in 20" of water. Sometimes i do not stop to help them, sorry, but if I am wearing a suit, I am not going to wade out into 20" of icy cold muddy water to hook a strap to your car and you cannot open the door without flooding your car, so you will probably have to wait five hours for that tow truck driver (unless you want to climb out of your window and wade - i can toss you the tow strap from the ridiculously high (and dry) bed of my truck.
When your little frightened sedan breaks down, I will have the hydraulic jack and the mechanical tool you are not able to carry with you. if you look like a nice person, I will stop and try to get you on the road again if practical (unless you tell me I am an idiot for driving such a truck when I stop, then you can wait for the two truck, and then wait and pay for them to do the work for you).
I have driven up piles of rocks and over demolished buildings, through mud a foot deep and through water about 24" deep. Also through even deeper snow to the point where i am plowing with my bumper.
My last set of tires cost $100 for four tires installed. They were used tires with about 66% of the tread left. they are good tires but a little buzzy on pavement. I will let you know how they do in snow.
I bought my formerly $62,000 truck five years old for $18,000 at an auction selling off the assets of - - - A construction company! so yes, it was used by construction workers on a construction site. In fact it even came with built in bright strobe flashy lights, a marking paint gun and some temporary marking paint, construction area tape, and some other useful tools.
My prior truck was a fancy pants giant high end Ford Lariat that I bought for $4500 - from a construction company. It was really cheap because the bed had blobs of asphalt in it that took a lot of work to scrape out. It also had a dent where those skinny construction workers had backed into a trailer hitch, but it performed quite well what i needed it to do and looked great as long as you did not look too closely at the back. It also served very well to pull those frightened little sedans out of the ditch (one of my favorite hobbies).
BTW, I work in the construction industry. Most construction workers my age are at least as fat as me with a few exceptions. they really are not that skinny. the skinniest construction workers of my age group that i know of are the guys who work in the office and have the ability to work out regularly.
We buy pretty nice trucks for our workers. Colorados are the most popular right now, but there is a fair share of 2 and 4 door F150 Lariats or whatever the new equivalent is. Many of them have big tires and as 4x4s are pretty tall. You need a big tough truck at a construction site, sometimes. And while some of the workers cannot afford them, the company can. When you buy 60 trucks at a time, you can afford some luxury for the workers, and more important - safety items like Uconnect, Sync, Onstar etc. Further you would be surprised how many workers can afford a nice truck. Keep in mind an accomplished project manager makes about $165,000. Eventually, they can swing a $65,000 truck if that is what they want.
why do people second guess other peoples choices, wants and desires. Do you critique the size and efficiency of everyone house? their clothing? their boat(s)? Do you live in a small apartment stacked in with hundreds of other apartments? If not why do you live such a wasteful lifestyle? Many people spend as much as a third of their awake time in their vehicle. Why shouldn't they drive something that makes them comfortable, happy or able to do all the things they want to do with their vehicle? I realize it is human nature to be judgy and to stereotype and generalize like a madman, but hey get the log out of your eye first. Also be careful about generalizing where you do not have any actual knowledge. people might think ill of you.
Last edited by Coldjensens; 12-10-2018 at 04:36 PM..
Did you READ the part I was responding to?? I agreed about the range being decreased slightly, but the parts I was responding to had nothing to do with range or rate of recharging (which he actually never mentioned). In your haste to be anti-EV you start all sorts of straw man arguments, Ziggy.
Teslas seem to be doing fine in cold climates, both in Canada and Europe, as far as drivability. Other EV manufacturers will follow with AWD chassis. And like you said, then it's just a matter of good tires getting you around in the winter.
I don’t hate EV’s, I just think they’re over hyped. It’s not a straw man to post what is clearly a disadvantage in terms of cold weather. It’s not the decrease in range that’s the problem, (ICE’s decrease in range as well, just not as much), but the inability to quickly recharge or find a charging station when that range decreases. In everyone’s haste to pump up EV’s, some very real limitations tend to get played down.
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