Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
...followed only by the frequency of that idiotic comeback. Of course working on a Chrysler assembly line for a decade or two and retiring back when GWB was still President makes you the ultimate US auto authority.
Let’s just say i have many friends working for them so yes i know quite a bit of what is going on still. I close to 2 Chrysler assembly plants and stamping plants for Ford and Chrysler and i live 15 miles from GMs tech center.
Chrysler has been bailed out twice, gone bankrupt and has been sold to the Italians.
GM has been bailed out and gone bankrupt.
Ford just barely avoided bankruptcy and having to be bailed out, thanks to Alan Mulally, an auto industry outsider.
Mulally had NOTHING to do with Ford's finances back then. All of that was already in the works before he even got there and it wasn't his idea. Quite frankly, he is not a corporate finance expert - he just got the credit for it. Don Leclair (the CFO at the time) was the driving force behind that $24B equity loan.
That doesn't mean he wasn't a good CEO. He was excellent - but he got credit for a lot of stuff he had nothing to do with.
Lastly, Honda and Toyota got bailed out by their government years ago, too, but nobody seems to be holding that against them. (Not to mention they continue to get government "grants" to fund new product programs - something the US government does not do for Ford or GM.)
The Japanese and Germans will sell all the sedans they want.
Sedan sales in 2017 vs 2018:
Camry: 387K sales in 2017 to 343K in 2018
Accord: 323K to 291K
Civic: 377K to 326K
Corolla: 329K to 304K
That is not a good trend when overall vehicle sales were flat. That means sedans lost a lot of market share and trucks/SUV's/CUV's gained.
I don't know why everyone thinks it's a given that sedan sales will ever stabilize or recover. Many countries have virtually zero sedan sales as people by wagons/CUV's/SUV's instead. It's not out of the question for that to happen in the US, too.
I remember tons of people freaked out when Ford killed the Panther program (Town Car, Crown Vic & Grand Marquis) but nobody cares about that now....
These sale trends are little more than a reaction to the economy. When it’s bad, it’s Bud Light, Marlboro, Happy Meals. When it’s good, it’s craft beer, Nicorrette, Panera Bread. No different in the automotive landscape. Bad, it’s Civics, Malibu, Fusion. Good, it’s Exploders, Tawhores, 250 Laramie Seal Clubbers. Those who aren’t as exposed to the shifting winds of the economy tend to buy higher end in general.
In business, if you’re not thinking about the unthinkable, planning for the unplanned, then you will find yourself behind the curve at some point very soon. I think both Ford and GM are being very short sighted at the moment. A recession is coming sooner rather than later. Consumer confidence index will fall again. 20 MPG won’t be ignored around the kitchen table. But I get it here. A decade of being told by politicians of a shaky economy, followed by a boom, tends to make folks say “enough” worrying, I want what I want, and that means decisions based on immediate want instead of thoughtful long term planning. Hard to argue against that when there are more construction cranes in the air of Nashville, Raleigh, OKC than there are in DC, LA, Chicago...
My hope is that Detroit at least keeps the sedan skeleton crew on board and they stand ready to shift back to sedans in a blink of an eye. Tax payers are likely not coming to the rescue again now for the Motown 3 given this decision. But let us hope we never see that need again in general. 2008 was extraordinary, driven by pure unregulated and unchecked credit markets, of the likes rarely if ever seen before in modern history. Some scholars suggest it was a tactic to keep the country calm after 9/11 and distracted from the brutalities of a nation at war. Here, play with this new toy (house and car) and don’t worry about the Middle East, we got it under control.
Camry: 387K sales in 2017 to 343K in 2018
Accord: 323K to 291K
Civic: 377K to 326K
Corolla: 329K to 304K
That is not a good trend when overall vehicle sales were flat. That means sedans lost a lot of market share and trucks/SUV's/CUV's gained.
I don't know why everyone thinks it's a given that sedan sales will ever stabilize or recover. Many countries have virtually zero sedan sales as people by wagons/CUV's/SUV's instead. It's not out of the question for that to happen in the US, too.
I remember tons of people freaked out when Ford killed the Panther program (Town Car, Crown Vic & Grand Marquis) but nobody cares about that now....
My point was that if the american car companies stop selling sedans that the other manufacturers will gladly pick up that demand. So lets see the figures 2 years after no american sedans are sold new.
The american sedan may never recover, but there will always be sedans available from someone.
My point was that if the american car companies stop selling sedans that the other manufacturers will gladly pick up that demand. So lets see the figures 2 years after no american sedans are sold new.
The american sedan may never recover, but there will always be sedans available from someone.
Gm is still making some sedans and Ford still has the Mustang, and Chrysler has the challenger and charger and the 300 for now so the big 3 still make some sedans.
Give it a little time, maybe a couple of years and they will be posting losses again. They are building some of the worst pieces of crap they have made since the 80's. They had finally gotten their quality up and were making pretty good cars and very good and reliable trucks but have now slid right back into the corporate focus on profits and build them cheap mentality. Their trucks, in particular the Silverado 1500, is a complete pile of crap. They couldn't sell cars because they are junk and most that want a car buy a toyota or honda or for higher end they buy a BMW or Mercedes. Sure the market for sedans has dropped some but if you don't build pieces of junk, you will at least maintain your share of the market.
That is all coming from someone who owns 7 GM vehicles (trucks, SUV's and a sports sedan), a Mercedes and some Ford work vans. The newer they are the bigger pieces of junk they are and I even sold a Tahoe I bought brand new a couple of years ago because it was the cheapest built, most unreliable vehicle I have ever owned including vehicles with hundreds of thousands of miles on them. I will never buy another GM vehicle again.
Give it a little time, maybe a couple of years and they will be posting losses again. They are building some of the worst pieces of crap they have made since the 80's. They had finally gotten their quality up and were making pretty good cars and very good and reliable trucks but have now slid right back into the corporate focus on profits and build them cheap mentality. Their trucks, in particular the Silverado 1500, is a complete pile of crap. They couldn't sell cars because they are junk and most that want a car buy a toyota or honda or for higher end they buy a BMW or Mercedes. Sure the market for sedans has dropped some but if you don't build pieces of junk, you will at least maintain your share of the market.
That is all coming from someone who owns 7 GM vehicles (trucks, SUV's and a sports sedan), a Mercedes and some Ford work vans. The newer they are the bigger pieces of junk they are and I even sold a Tahoe I bought brand new a couple of years ago because it was the cheapest built, most unreliable vehicle I have ever owned including vehicles with hundreds of thousands of miles on them. I will never buy another GM vehicle again.
That’s your right i don’t think GM is going to miss you.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
