Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
What's funny is the look on their face when right off the bat I ask them what their doc fee is. They usually stumble for a second trying to think of a way to get around it, but realize there is no way. I guess they don't get asked that question very often.
LOL yeah.
At least around here car dealerships are pretty reasonable. I think the highest doc fee I've seen was around $200. Still a rip off but at least it's not outlandish. In contrast the lowest doc fee I've seen at a motorcycle dealership has been $800. Most of them are in the $1,200-1,500 range. Crazy. I've had to go to either Nevada or down to Los Angeles to pick up bikes... and we're not talking expensive bikes. Stuff like a $5,000 250 cc dual sport and they want another $1,500 to take it out of a crate and doc fees. It's nuts. All they're doing is putting the handle bars and adjusting the cables. Then there's usually another $600 or so delivery fee on top of the normal one that Honda charges. $2,000 markup on a $5,000 bike... and that's just all of them. I hit at least a dozen Honda/Kawasaki dealers and a couple KTM dealers and they all around here charge similar fees. None of them will budge. When I was looking at the CB500X for just commuting and riding around on, I watched one of them that was a last year model sit there for nine months. Called a few time to see if they were interested in selling it for even MSRP and they weren't. No idea if someone finally bought it for the 20% markup or if they finally just caved and sold it at at or below MSRP.
At least around here car dealerships are pretty reasonable. I think the highest doc fee I've seen was around $200. Still a rip off but at least it's not outlandish. In contrast the lowest doc fee I've seen at a motorcycle dealership has been $800. Most of them are in the $1,200-1,500 range. Crazy. I've had to go to either Nevada or down to Los Angeles to pick up bikes... and we're not talking expensive bikes. Stuff like a $5,000 250 cc dual sport and they want another $1,500 to take it out of a crate and doc fees. It's nuts. All they're doing is putting the handle bars and adjusting the cables. Then there's usually another $600 or so delivery fee on top of the normal one that Honda charges. $2,000 markup on a $5,000 bike... and that's just all of them. I hit at least a dozen Honda/Kawasaki dealers and a couple KTM dealers and they all around here charge similar fees. None of them will budge. When I was looking at the CB500X for just commuting and riding around on, I watched one of them that was a last year model sit there for nine months. Called a few time to see if they were interested in selling it for even MSRP and they weren't. No idea if someone finally bought it for the 20% markup or if they finally just caved and sold it at at or below MSRP.
The best way to buy motorcycles, is to negotiate an "OTD" (Out-the-door) price. Come up with a number, and stick with it.
Which KTM were you looking at?
Everyone makes the mistake of actually going to the dealership and getting the deal done there. Once you step foot into the dealership, a lot of your power is lost and the salesman knows it. Always negotiate over email or phone if you can. The deal needs to be 100% completed prior to you even stepping foot inside the dealership...the only thing you go to a dealership for is to sign all the papers, run credit check etc...
Every vehicle I have purchased, negotiation is done over email and the deal is set prior to going to the dealership. This is the best way to do it and you will most likely secure yourself a "better" deal going about it this way.
Also, negotiate with multiple dealers at the same time in your area and go with the one who presents the "best" deal.
I think it depends where you buy the car. In Florida, there's all kinds of shenanigans at dealerships. Listed at one then they add on a mandatory reconditioning fee of $3,600 to bring it up to newish standards. Pretty much just a car detail job. I walked out. But in California, where I've bought several times, this time at a high-end dealer, I was expecting a bait and add-on like most. But I was in and out in 2 hours. 90 minutes was waiting for paperwork and me getting a cashier check. They had 50 calls for my same car because it was a true bargain. I know they had to get it off the lot to make space. The car was only $20k with 9800 miles on it as a trade-in. They had a serious lack of space for incoming Luxury cars selling for $70k+.
It often is an embarrassing way to run a business... come to accept that.
For this reason I have gone with a lot of friends back in the day as I grew up around the car business...
Hand them my Dealership card and then they are thinking I expect a bird-dog fee...
Tell them I want the best deal for my friend and lets cut to the chase... seems to clear up a lot of potential problems.
Two new cars I had picked up without even paying for one and without completed docs...
The dealership no longer accepted personal checks on the day of delivery... so I drove home not paying with the promise of a bank check in the mail that day... which is exactly what I did.
Another was a loaded Honda Odyssey in farm country... not a lot of demand but they had to have one so they made a great deal... thing is my brother and wife were going on title and wife was 200 miles away... they gave me the entire doc package along with the car for her to sign and overnight back... which I did.
Some shop value, others shop convenience and others can't believe they are driving a new car home... without a care in the world as to what they just signed...
Only bought one new car for myself... it was Euro Delivery as I would be working overseas for a few months...
I contacted 5 dealers with my print out of what I wanted with all the option codes, my arrival and departure dates and the price I was willing to pay.
Four ranged from indifferent to outright lying...
The fifth one called and said he was with clients and asked if he could call me back in one hour...
He called back with a few questions, I told him my background and that if he could do the deal we had a deal... he said yes and I paid a $100 deposit on the phone and he faxed back the build/delivery.
Enjoyed every moment driving my new car in Europe and avoided the expense of a rental... when it arrived stateside I had to go to the Dealer for my California DMV the Dealer said he had a customer that saw my car and asked if I intended to keep it...
So one in five is my experience... one told me I couldn't get the car... another said I could drive one home tonight... etc... they totally missed I needed a car in Germany aspect.
On a side note... I opted for personalized plates which took forever... so I drove many months with my Euro Plates on the car... of course there was the small tape DMV doc on the window...
Rarely have I ever seen a car dealership actually shut down, completely out of business. Just when I thought "oh! haha that snake pit just went out of business!" turns out they just built a BIGGER dealership and moved locations. Sucker born every minute, I guess.
Using the finance dept at the dealership is hands down the WORST idea for ANYONE, regardless of credit:
Good credit: they won't get you the lowest rate
Bad credit: they won't get you the lowest rate, and may even tell you none of the banks will finance you
Dealerships have NO legal obligation to disclose their markup on the interest rate the bank quoted them. It is completely opaque.
There's a reason dealerships use relatively few credit unions, if any, in their list of lenders they source offers from when they run your credit. Most credit unions are special-purpose and non-profit. Often there is a membership requirement and an application approval process that doesn't get completed in the same-day timeframe that they wish to sell you a car. Truliant is the only one big enough and open enough to be on speed dial.
Feel free to list any others you've heard. It would only help readers.
Retail banks are known to "view" any vehicle over 5 years old as an "unsecured loan" and offer double-digit interest on a 6 model-year-old car. Funny, there's still a paper stating the vehicle as collateral. Is there a GPS chip in there, too?
Credit unions lend on 10-11 model-years-old and most have very low requirements for credit. Middle-600's scores will usually get their best (the advertised) rate. This can be as low as 2.99% for a 1-3 year old car, or as high as 5-6% for a 10-11 y/o car.
Rarely have I ever seen a car dealership actually shut down, completely out of business. Just when I thought "oh! haha that snake pit just went out of business!" turns out they just built a BIGGER dealership and moved locations. Sucker born every minute, I guess.
Using the finance dept at the dealership is hands down the WORST idea for ANYONE, regardless of credit:
Good credit: they won't get you the lowest rate
Bad credit: they won't get you the lowest rate, and may even tell you none of the banks will finance you
Dealerships have NO legal obligation to disclose their markup on the interest rate the bank quoted them. It is completely opaque.
There's a reason dealerships use relatively few credit unions, if any, in their list of lenders they source offers from when they run your credit. Most credit unions are special-purpose and non-profit. Often there is a membership requirement and an application approval process that doesn't get completed in the same-day timeframe that they wish to sell you a car. Truliant is the only one big enough and open enough to be on speed dial.
Feel free to list any others you've heard. It would only help readers.
Retail banks are known to "view" any vehicle over 5 years old as an "unsecured loan" and offer double-digit interest on a 6 model-year-old car. Funny, there's still a paper stating the vehicle as collateral. Is there a GPS chip in there, too?
Credit unions lend on 10-11 model-years-old and most have very low requirements for credit. Middle-600's scores will usually get their best (the advertised) rate. This can be as low as 2.99% for a 1-3 year old car, or as high as 5-6% for a 10-11 y/o car.
Tons of good info in this post. Many car buyers aren't aware that every aspect of the deal is negotiable - including the interest rate. Dealers can, and do, mark up the loan interest rate.
The best way to buy motorcycles, is to negotiate an "OTD" (Out-the-door) price. Come up with a number, and stick with it.
Which KTM were you looking at?
I’ve always ask for the OTD price. I also only buy online. Best online dealer who sold a lot of bikes and beat all the competitors price was in the middle of the ‘hood in Los Angeles.
Help me out here. Why are car dealerships seemingly run by shady incompetents? I'd really like to know.
Automobile stealerships are protected monopolies, in some ways similar to public electric utilities, trash collection, cable TV, and the like. Their monopolies have been set in stone via State Legislatures. Tesla is perhaps the only company with any results bypassing the State rules, and of course they've only achieved that in some states.
Like any protected monopoly, they don't have to be competent or efficient.
***
I've had 2 very good new car purchase experiences.
The first: buying a new Mustang around 1997 or so. It was in the summer, and I sat in a lounge chair in my pool. I got one stealership to FAX me the invoice together with their price to me. Via telephone, I challenged 3 other stealerships to meet or beat it. They kept trying to get me to come into the showroom and they promised they'd beat it. Yeah, right. I replied, "No, I'm sitting in my pool. I'm not coming down. Send me your best price and your invoice via FAX. If I like it, I'll buy it over the phone."
I ended up purchasing from the original. Charged everything to my Costco credit car.
The second: buying a new Scion xB. These are "no-dicker" dealerships. I played one off against the other regarding how much they would let me put on my Costco credit card. The first said $10K. The second second also said $10K - so I told them there was no reason for me to buy from them. Ultimately, the second dealership called back & let me charge the entire purchase price via credit card over the telephone.
The best part: a salesman drove the new car to me, had me sign the paperwork including credit card transaction, and drove off with the old car (a beater).
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
