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I let my local FD use my Volt for training purposes, but it was more so about where the disconnect the HV battery after a wreck. You can't just go sawing through the hood of an EV like you can with an ICE vehicle.
I let my local FD use my Volt for training purposes, but it was more so about where the disconnect the HV battery after a wreck. You can't just go sawing through the hood of an EV like you can with an ICE vehicle.
What makes it more difficult is there are different layouts even within the same brand. There are guides but they have to know the year, make, and model for the reference.
As I said before, we have the training to deal with a gas or diesel powered vehicle fire. If caught early they’re easily to get under control until the fire department arrives to ensure the fire is out.
Below is an example of a lithium ion battery fire. The way it starts and spreads is different than a gas vehicle.
Yes, it's more effectively dealt with given the right training. It is still a very low risk in terms of it happening and much lower risk in terms of probabilities than that of internal combustion engine vehicle fire. That should be acknowledged first.
Along with that is that it is not necessarily of greater consequence per incident either--that's not yet determined yet though that the severity is worse on average. It is a good thing, which we're in agreement on, for there to be training though as that should reduce severity. However, that does not change that the chances of it happening are very low and thus far seemingly lower than that of internal combustion engine vehicle fire incidents.
Yes, it's more effectively dealt with given the right training. It is still a very low risk in terms of it happening and much lower risk in terms of probabilities than that of internal combustion engine vehicle fire. That should be acknowledged first.
Along with that is that it is not necessarily of greater consequence per incident either--that's not yet determined yet though that the severity is worse on average. It is a good thing, which we're in agreement on, for there to be training though as that should reduce severity. However, that does not change that the chances of it happening are very low and thus far seemingly lower than that of internal combustion engine vehicle fire incidents.
Lack of training and effective fire fighting materials and techniques can result in greater damage if the fire is in a parking structure. On the street or in a home parking is different than trying to fight a vehicle fire in a parking structure where space and mobility is limited. Even with being on the street the risk of accidental electrocution is a viable risk especially to volunteer fire fighters who haven’t received proper training to deal with these types of vehicles. They’ve received training on hybrids but many have t received comprehensive training on electric vehicles, if they’ve received training at all.
Lack of training and effective fire fighting materials and techniques can result in greater damage if the fire is in a parking structure. On the street or in a home parking is different than trying to fight a vehicle fire in a parking structure where space and mobility is limited. Even with being on the street the risk of accidental electrocution is a viable risk especially to volunteer fire fighters who haven’t received proper training to deal with these types of vehicles. They’ve received training on hybrids but many have t received comprehensive training on electric vehicles, if they’ve received training at all.
There's no disagreement on having training is a good idea especially as electric vehicles become more common. I think if this worries you very much, then you should contact your local fire department and ask if they have been trained. However, there's something a bit odd about this level of concern.
There is so far documented seemingly much, much lower chance of a fire incident and also no evidence yet that electric vehicle fires are more severe. Are there severe incidents? Yes, there are, but there are severe incidents of internal combustion engine vehicle fires as well and it's not clear that electric vehicle fire severity is worse and meanwhile there is some data supporting that the probabilities of an EV fire incident is much lower. I would think that you would be far more worried about internal combustion engine vehicles being parked in that parking garage. Does your hospital allow that?
There's no disagreement on having training is a good idea especially as electric vehicles become more common. I think if this worries you very much, then you should contact your local fire department and ask if they have been trained. However, there's something a bit odd about this level of concern.
There is so far documented seemingly much, much lower chance of a fire incident and also no evidence yet that electric vehicle fires are more severe. Are there severe incidents? Yes, there are, but there are severe incidents of internal combustion engine vehicle fires as well and it's not clear that electric vehicle fire severity is worse and meanwhile there is some data supporting that the probabilities of an EV fire incident is much lower. I would think that you would be far more worried about internal combustion engine vehicles being parked in that parking garage. Does your hospital allow that?
Low does not mean no fire. I’ve worked at my hospital for 22 1/2 years and there’s never been a helicopter fire but we do have training and fire fighting materials for such fires. The number of doctors and nurses driving EVs and parking next to the hospital in the parking garage has increased. However there is no plan nor procedures for us to follow should one of them catch fire. We have had vehicle fires in the parking garage but our dry chemical extinguisher was enough to keep it under control until the fire department arrives. Such extinguishers won’t work for a battery fire. Oh, and those parking spaces are attached to the surgery department and directly over the emergency department so this is a valid concern for planning as part of my job as the first responder for fires at work.
The above video is another hazard local fire departments must face in wrecks involving EVs.
Low does not mean no fire. I’ve worked at my hospital for 22 1/2 years and there’s never been a helicopter fire but we do have training and fire fighting materials for such fires. The number of doctors and nurses driving EVs and parking next to the hospital in the parking garage has increased. However there is no plan nor procedures for us to follow should one of them catch fire. We have had vehicle fires in the parking garage but our dry chemical extinguisher was enough to keep it under control until the fire department arrives. Such extinguishers won’t work for a battery fire. Oh, and those parking spaces are attached to the surgery department and directly over the emergency department so this is a valid concern for planning as part of my job as the first responder for fires at work.
The above video is another hazard local fire departments must face in wrecks involving EVs.
No one is saying there is no risk. It is only that there is greater risk in probability and no indication of greater or lower risk in terms of severity for an internal combustion engine vehicle fire. Even with the limited to no training fire departments have had, there hasn't been much evidence of overall greater severity (greater water usage though) of fires.
Does your hospital allow internal combustion engine vehicles to park in the parking garage? Is it possible that you need to move parking spaces further away from the surgery department and not have them directly over the emergency department given the greater odds of a fire for an internal combustion engine vehicle and potentially similar severity of fire even with training?
No one is saying there is no risk. It is only that there is greater risk in probability and no indication of greater or lower risk in terms of severity for an internal combustion engine vehicle fire. Even with the limited to no training fire departments have had, there hasn't been much evidence of overall greater severity (greater water usage though) of fires.
Does your hospital allow internal combustion engine vehicles to park in the parking garage? Is it possible that you need to move parking spaces further away from the surgery department and not have them directly over the emergency department given the greater odds of a fire for an internal combustion engine vehicle and potentially similar severity of fire even with training?
As I’ve said several times before,…we’ve had vehicle fires before in our parking garages. Because of our training and fire fighting equipment available we were able to keep the fire under control and to a minimum until the fire department arrived to ensure the fire was fully put out. We’ve never had a vehicle fire spread to nearby vehicles nor structures because of our training and materials. We don’t have such training for electric vehicles. If we’re lucky the fire won’t be at the battery and our materials would be enough until the fire department arrives. As for parking near the building, I don’t have such authority. That’s why I expressed my concerns to my one up. The parking was set up for speed. Doctors and nurses on call can park there and quickly enter the door to the hospital’s surgery department to respond to emergency cases. One option would be to install a dry pipe sprinkler system throughout all parking structures. The one in e remains dry and filled with compressed air until a sprinkler head is activated. Once activated then the compressed air bleeds out and allows a flapper valve to open allowing fire fighting water to flood the sprinkler pipes. This activated the electric fire fighting pumps to provide enough pressure for the sprinkler system. If the fire continues to spread then it would open up more sprinkler heads. This would help to reduce the spread and severity of an EV fire until the fire department arrives. But we don’t have such a system right now. Currently we have portable extinguishers and a fire hose connection for the fire department.
As I’ve said several times before,…we’ve had vehicle fires before in our parking garages. Because of our training and fire fighting equipment available we were able to keep the fire under control and to a minimum until the fire department arrived to ensure the fire was fully put out. We’ve never had a vehicle fire spread to nearby vehicles nor structures because of our training and materials. We don’t have such training for electric vehicles. If we’re lucky the fire won’t be at the battery and our materials would be enough until the fire department arrives. As for parking near the building, I don’t have such authority. That’s why I expressed my concerns to my one up. The parking was set up for speed. Doctors and nurses on call can park there and quickly enter the door to the hospital’s surgery department to respond to emergency cases. One option would be to install a dry pipe sprinkler system throughout all parking structures. The one in e remains dry and filled with compressed air until a sprinkler head is activated. Once activated then the compressed air bleeds out and allows a flapper valve to open allowing fire fighting water to flood the sprinkler pipes. This activated the electric fire fighting pumps to provide enough pressure for the sprinkler system. If the fire continues to spread then it would open up more sprinkler heads. This would help to reduce the spread and severity of an EV fire until the fire department arrives. But we don’t have such a system right now. Currently we have portable extinguishers and a fire hose connection for the fire department.
As I've said earlier, even seemingly without all the training that would help with reducing the severity of a fire incident, there seems to be no data supporting that even *without* training the severity of EV fire incidents (the *severity*, not the probability which seem much lower so far) is greater than for for fire incidents regarding internal combustion engine vehicles despite there being training for internal combustion engine vehicle fires.
Since the probability seems to be much higher and it's unclear despite there being training for fighting these fires versus potentially no training for electric vehicles that the latter is routinely more severe, then should this admirably lower risk tolerance include disallowing internal combustion engine vehicles from parking in the parking garage?
I'm in agreement with you that limiting risk is good and that you should ask your local fire department if they are trained for it and if there's anything that makes sense for your hospital to install. At the same time, it would seem wise in terms of accurately gauging the risk level both in probability and severity. Again, the probability looks to be much lower and meanwhile the severity does not seem to be notably higher despite fire departments almost certainly having training with internal combustion engine vehicle fires and potentially not with electric vehicle fires.
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