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It’s actually a nicer car than I imagined. Used to run some deliveries in one. Cheap and cheerful is how it comes across. It’s a far better car than the Trax which kinda sorta nominally replaces it.
Yeah the Trax is a heinous small car. I had one as a loaner when I was having my first Bolt's infotainment up dated and it was rough, crude, slow to respond and the transmission didn't know what gear to be in. I hated it.
I think the Bolt EUV is a bit of a scam. The EPA classifies them both the same as "Small Station Wagons" and the Bolt EUV has 3 cubic feet more passenger space than the Bolt EV and 1 less cubic feet luggage space.
Although the stripped down base price of the two vehicles is almost identical, it seems to me that dealers feel freer to load up the EUV with expensive options. After all you have purchased a utility vehicle and not a subcompact car!
2023 Chevrolet Bolt EV/MSRP From $26,500
2023 Chevrolet Bolt EUV/MSRP From $27,800
The Bolt isn't available with a sunroof, so the EUV is the one to choose if you want that (I do and so I did). It also is available with SuperCruise (the hands free driving mode) which I DIDN'T want (it's a subscription after 3 years. WTF?). It also has a noticeable amount of extra space, and with the rear seats folded down definitely has more cargo room that the regular Bolt (I've had both, and taken both on road trips with the same luggage). Also I don't think that the EPA classification includes the lower rear bin under the false floor. It's much deeper and usable that the regular Bolt. Again, have had both.
I also think it looks better than the regular bolt, with a much more normal hood/windshield transition and a slightly taller nose making the proportions more like a "normal" car. I don't see how it's a "scam."
Why do you want something LESS reliable than an EV? Yore not going to be working on a new car ANYHOW, and the drive train portion of the EV has a much longer warranty than a gas car drive train. The much lower operating cost of an EV is also a factor. As a lifelong Republican (who remembers when the GOP invented the EPA in the '70s to combat air and water pollution), the zero tailpipe emissions is a side benefit to the quiet, quick, and low cost ownership factors. TCO is way down. And as someone who got heavy third degree burns from being in a gas car that essentially exploded, the fire risk is SO much less in an EV (like 100 times less likely)
The Bolt is EXACTLY the kind of car you're looking for other than not being powered by exploding dinosaurs. You (and anyone else that has an irrational hatred/fear of them) really need to drive one (especially back to back after a buzzy, slow, compact gas car) to understand what throttle response is all about.
Well, I had a lengthy dialog typed because I was cranky from being stuck on hold fixing a billing error. That's resolved and I'm much happier so I'm starting over.
The Bolt is NOT what I'd drive even if it were a gas vehicle. The back is too small for me. And as an EV it doesn't have the range I need for trips.
The rest of your dialog is what works for you. We DO work on new cars still. We're in the industry. And being in the industry, we see things that go wrong with all types of vehicles.
This is a personal preference, for both of us actually. Same as having a preference for Ford over Chevy. We prefer gas cars with minimal electronics.
I will continue to develop a list of small GAS powered vehicles that suit my needs for when my current car dies. That's why I enjoy these threads, not to have an electric agenda pushed down my throat.
I still drive my 2011 Honda Fit Sport, which I bought after the Japan tsunami because it was the only decent thing I could find in the entire city of Dallas. The one I bought was the ONLY white Honda Fit in the city. I had to buy in a hurry because I was working 7 days a week, and my Subaru Forester had expensive emergency repairs come up. I had been looking for a replacement vehicle the year before, so I had an idea already what was available in the small SUV category. That went out the window after the tsunami, but I remembered seeing the Honda Fit on showroom floor and knew it had the highest resale value of the subcompacts, and that the interior was awesome (you can "fit" a lot in it).
Fast forward 11 years. I've had to replace the battery, and have maintenance performed periodically. I have only 40,300 miles on it. I have had not needed any repairs, other than the battery. I had to add freon to the a/c (I live in the hot south).
The only real problem with it, to the extent an owner cares, is that the computerized time/date has the wrong year, which apparently can't be corrected. The time/date zeroed out last year due to a computer glitch (to all Honda fits of various years). The time corrected itself a few months later, as Honda said it would, but the wrong year remains. It doesn't matter much, really, but it is irksome.
I didn't want to keep the Fit this long. I intended to keep it only a year or two, when I bought it. But life happened, and I'm still driving it. I'd planned to buy a new, larger vehicle last year, but then the lack of availability and the large price increases happened, so I've put that off. I'll start looking this year. I'll probably get a Honda CRV, which seems to me is much like a large Honda Fit. In the meantime, I've enjoyed great gas mileage in my Fit. I made a two hour trip last weekend and got over 38 mpg (w/o a/c running).
I just wonder why Honda would discontinue a successful car that's a good seller? They wouldn't, if they thought those buyers would then turn to other good subcompacts, it seems to me. So do they want Honda Fit buyers to buy "up" a bit? I'll be buying a larger vehicle because that's what I need. But it's curious they would discontinue a successful car.
The Bolt is NOT what I'd drive even if it were a gas vehicle. The back is too small for me.
How are you going to sleep in any car smaller than the Bolt, gas or otherwise? Sorry, when I see irrationality and outright lack of reasoning, I question it. This is the hatch area of my Bolt. You're not going to find larger in a smaller car.
So which is it, an actual small car or a Suburban that you're looking for?
The Corolla hatchback has a manual available, but it's actually smaller in the back than the Bolt, so you're not sleeping in there, either:
The Prius is a tad longer, though not as tall, but you're still not sleeping in the back of one and it's partially electric and doesn't have a manual option. The GTI is the same size as the Bolt, has a manual, costs the same as the Bolt, and you can't sleep in back. The MINI Cooper is a touch smaller that the Bolt, can't sleep in back, but has a manual version.
The small manual wagons of the '80s have become the small crossovers of today. Which according to you are too big/tall AND don't have manuals. So it looks like you HAVE to compromise on at least one of your requirements.
Well, I had a lengthy dialog typed because I was cranky from being stuck on hold fixing a billing error. That's resolved and I'm much happier so I'm starting over.
The Bolt is NOT what I'd drive even if it were a gas vehicle. The back is too small for me. And as an EV it doesn't have the range I need for trips.
The rest of your dialog is what works for you. We DO work on new cars still. We're in the industry. And being in the industry, we see things that go wrong with all types of vehicles.
This is a personal preference, for both of us actually. Same as having a preference for Ford over Chevy. We prefer gas cars with minimal electronics.
I will continue to develop a list of small GAS powered vehicles that suit my needs for when my current car dies. That's why I enjoy these threads, not to have an electric agenda pushed down my throat.
You said you were into hot hatches and this topic is about subcompact cars. The Bolt does not have a small trunk/back compared to other hot hatches or subcompact cars (as a hatchback, it certainly has more space than a subcompact sedan). Range for trips you need to do, preference for ICE vehicles, etc., that's all good and fine, but it does not sound like you actually want a hot hatch or a subcompact car with some of the objections you bring up.
How are you going to sleep in any car smaller than the Bolt, gas or otherwise? Sorry, when I see irrationality and outright lack of reasoning, I question it. This is the hatch area of my Bolt. You're not going to find larger in a smaller car.
So which is it, an actual small car or a Suburban that you're looking for?
The Corolla hatchback has a manual available, but it's actually smaller in the back than the Bolt, so you're not sleeping in there, either:
The Prius is a tad longer, though not as tall, but you're still not sleeping in the back of one and it's partially electric and doesn't have a manual option. The GTI is the same size as the Bolt, has a manual, costs the same as the Bolt, and you can't sleep in back. The MINI Cooper is a touch smaller that the Bolt, can't sleep in back, but has a manual version.
The small manual wagons of the '80s have become the small crossovers of today. Which according to you are too big/tall AND don't have manuals. So it looks like you HAVE to compromise on at least one of your requirements.
Thanks for that picture! Other pix and comments about the Bolts (possibly earlier years) showed a large ledge once you put the back seat down. It wasn't the size but the ledge. That shows it can be done, but I still wouldn't buy one I wouldn't buy a Prius either so I don't even look at their specs.
I do have a friend my size who slept in their Mini so I don't see an issue with that. My current car is a Focus hatch. I'd expect a GTI to be about the same providing the seats don't leave a ledge when down. I know some Focus models do, but mine doesn't.
You are right in that the small wagons became crossovers and not necessarily small. But there are models in the past 10 years that are smaller and I believe through at least 2021 you could get a stick. I parked next to a 2014 Outback Sport that was about the same size as my Focus, even the height.
My perfect car would be Focus/GTI sized, 2 door hatch with a stick. As I said upthread though, my model Focus shows as a mid-sized car based on interior volume, and I consider it a compact.
One of my complaints with the smaller cars is lack of trunk space with the seats up. I usually put my front bike wheel in the trunk after a ride and even in the Focus it no longer lies flat. My 80s car could fit 2 wheels in the trunk with gear. The issue with wagons is a cargo cover. I swear it's an add-on option by all the wagons I see with their cargo exposed. I buy used so I can't always pick options and the OEM covers can be hard to find.
I spent quite a few years checking out Foci for specs so when we stumbled on mine I knew it would work. I admit to crawling in the back of a coworkers to test it. I'm kind of doing the same thing again for my next car.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler
You said you were into hot hatches and this topic is about subcompact cars. The Bolt does not have a small trunk/back compared to other hot hatches or subcompact cars (as a hatchback, it certainly has more space than a subcompact sedan). Range for trips you need to do, preference for ICE vehicles, etc., that's all good and fine, but it does not sound like you actually want a hot hatch or a subcompact car with some of the objections you bring up.
I am probably more in the compact category with what I've had for years but always interested in what's out there that will fit me and my stuff. I sometimes forget that there are cars smaller than Focus/GTI. I think of the Smart car and what was that, micro?
Still much of my frustration holds true for both compact and subcompact - they are all disappearing like it or not. And That's why this thread caught my eye. Happy to bow out now
Tesla has no problem selling tons of sedans when everybody says that Americans buy only crossovers, SUVs, and trucks.
It can make any car because it doesn't care about the fuel economy laws.
Meanwhile Tesla Model Y sells better than Model 3...
Toyota and Honda still sell a fair number of Accords and Camrys also, but CR-Vs and RAV4s sell even better.
======================
As far as Subcompact cars in US - people just aren't buying them...it's all a matter of consumer preference. It's not just the US anyway - look at Canada and Australia and it's hard to find a subcompact there.
This is not Japan where people buy those kei car b/c the tax is much, much lower. Plus most of their commutes are "city commute" anyway.
Everything you say is true. Nissan discontinued the Maxima for next year because it was no longer profitable, not for any other reason. They are just as likely to discontinue the Venza next year for the same reason.
Venzas sold almost twice as many vehicles as Maximas, but at less than half the price.
Maxima® Starting MSRP $38,140- 3.5 liters---------7,110 Maxima
The Japanese have understood since WWII that giving tax subsidies to tiny cars (in Japan that means engines of 660 cc displacement and 63 hp or less) is good for the economy as public transport is not an option for everyone.
Now Japan has urban areas where most drivers never go more than 15 miles per day and seldom drive faster than 25 mph, But the idea of ( US subsidizing engines of 1660 cc displacement and 123 hp or less) is not that bad of an idea.
I think the big thing is that if I’m looking at a Versa, I’ll likely buy a slightly used Sentra instead. The MPG isn’t enough make a big difference. Very few people in the US have a living situation where the size difference matters.
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I wouldn't buy a Prius either so I don't even look at their specs.
I'm kind of doing the same thing again for my next car.
And That's why this thread caught my eye. Happy to bow out now
