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I have seen 2 used EVs thus far, both were Teslas and that is all I know about them - no pricing or miles info. I tell ya what I AM seeing an explosion of - Toyota Hybrids. Highlanders, Ravs, Camrys so I expect to eventually see them 'on the line' as well.
No thread about used cars is complete without reminding everyone to find and watch 'Used Cars' (starring a ton of people)
btw - in another thread we posted a number of current (no pun) graphs...ev battery degradation is noticeable well before 500K. in fact, well before 100K. its a shallow curve with a relatively normal amount of bad apples but it is there.
btw - in another thread we posted a number of current (no pun) graphs...ev battery degradation is noticeable well before 500K. in fact, well before 100K. its a shallow curve with a relatively normal amount of bad apples but it is there.
In Teslas it's shown to drop off about 20% after the first few years but levels out from there. In other cars, like the Bolt, there's none at 200k miles. And in cars like the Leaf, it's bad within 5 years due to the lack of thermal management. But the truth is, 2000 charge cycles is 500k miles. And since no one regularly charges from 0-100%, that timeframe is actually LONGER.
Lets do some more math. On a car like the Volt, that had a 16kWh battery and a 40 mile range, 2000 charge cycles is equal to a mere 80,000 electric miles. Which seems to be about right for the early Volts.
Early BMW i3s with about an 80 mile range are definitely seeing battery power reduction by 160k miles. Again, it's right at that 2000 charge cycle point.
People buy new computers now even though a faster, better, cheaper version will definitely be available next year. EVERY TIME! Does the promise of a better version stop the sales of current versions? Same with gas powered cars, there have been better performance and better featured new cars available every year. Does that stop the sales of ones NOW? No. Does the fact that new cars perform better stop the sales of old used ones? No.
I think this is kind of the point. Computers are now throwaway devices. There isn't much of a market for used computers. There used to be, but as far as I know most of the used computer stores that used to be out in the world are now fast food sandwich shops and nail salons.
Is the same fate heading towards electric cars as their technology becomes outdated? Will nobody want a 10 year old one, just like nobody wants a 10 year old computer?
...........Is the same fate heading towards electric cars as their technology becomes outdated? Will nobody want a 10 year old one, just like nobody wants a 10 year old computer?
That's an excellent question, because if for no other reason, an EV is SIGNIFICANTLY more costly than a laptop.
I think this is kind of the point. Computers are now throwaway devices. There isn't much of a market for used computers. There used to be, but as far as I know most of the used computer stores that used to be out in the world are now fast food sandwich shops and nail salons.
Is the same fate heading towards electric cars as their technology becomes outdated? Will nobody want a 10 year old one, just like nobody wants a 10 year old computer?
What difference is there between driving a 10 year old electric car with outdated technology from driving a 10 year old gas car with outdated technology?
There's millions of gas cars out there old enough to lack bluetooth, adaptive cruise control, backup cameras, auto-lift tailgates, etc., etc.
The key is they still run from Point A to Point B. As long as the old EV does the same, it will sell.
If the car is still running and is priced appropriately for its age and condition (which may include battery degradation), people will definitely buy them once they're a significant portion of the used car market.
I'm not rich and I'm on my third EV (the first two were leased, the new one is purchased). Mine cost $25k. How is that a rich person's car?
Here's the basic math (that seems to be holding true): modern thermally controlled (liquid cooled/heated) are rated for ~2000 charge cycles. On a car with a 250 mile nominal range, that's ~500,000 miles before the degradation is noticeable. 500,000 miles. The car will generally rot out around it before the battery can't be used in a car. Electric motors don't have really any failure points, either and should last the life of the car.
Your car is a good example of outdated technologies.
It had a Korean battery, let's say Gen 1. 100% of these batteries have been replaced, much earlier than 500,000 miles. Now, your car has a Gen 2 battery.
But the auto manufacturer already advertises new cars with Gen 3 batteries. It calls them Ultium. Of course, they are "better in every possible way".
It has to heavily discount your car, probably sells it for $10,000 below the production cost. Remember, Ultium batteries are better, and your car doesn't have them.
You should stay away from old EV batteries. You can buy a 10 year old Model S, however when (its not an if) the battery goes out, its a $15-20k replacement. The Tesla forums are littered with people buying them, and the batteries going bad.
Not going to post to the other forums as it's against the TOS, but EVs with fairly decent range and active thermal management systems are pretty recent and so there are few examples of such that are a a decade or more old. The only one really out there is the Tesla Model S and that's actually been faring pretty well: https://www.autoevolution.com/news/h...ds-204254.html
Now, there are EVs out there with fairly short range and without active thermal management systems that have not fared so well in terms of battery degradation. The latter is probably easily understandable as it means the batteries can easily get out of the range of temperatures where they suffer degradation and so that promotes a sort of wear on them. The former is a little bit harder to explain, but essentially batteries generally have a number of duty cycles which are essentially an equivalent of going from 0% to 100% and then back down on the battery. A lot of modern rechargeable batteries are good for somewhere in the range of 1,000 to 2,000 duty cycles before there is serious degradation. If you have a vehicle that in its prime was able to go 75 miles on a single charge then a duty cycle gets you, in a simplification for this example, 75,000 miles for 1,000 duty cycles. However, if your vehicle gets 280 miles per charge, then 1,000 duty cycles covers 280,000 miles.
I am into dependability and low depreciation in my retired years. My goal is to never see any dealer service department unless the factory's paying for a recall.
That means I'm putting off purchasing any EV as long as possible. Fortunately, we live in a state that's ultra conservative and not one to throw around green initiatives that are mandated.
I'm on my second Toyota hybrid, and I've not seen any service department in the 115K miles I've been driving them. They're bulletproof. My mid size SUV AWD vehicle is getting 41.5 mpg. My Camry Hybrid trade in got 49.5 mpg. And they cost substantially less than the average vehicles--half the cost of the average Tesla.
I imagine a lot of it will be buyers getting stuck with an EV with a battery-module nearing the
end of its life, or at least severely degraded.
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