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LOS ANGELES -- City Councilman Bill Rosendahl drove into a corner gas station with a big grin on his face. He stepped out of a sports utility vehicle, pumped fuel into the tank and declared it "the most joyous moment I've had since being elected to office."
Newsmax.com - LA Gas Station Gets Hydrogen Fuel Pump (http://www.newsmax.com/us/hydrogen_station/2008/06/27/107855.html - broken link)
Maybe a big grin but does he know that all that hydrogen comes from processing natural gas... so it still takes exploration and production from drilled wells, and carbon release from a non-renewable resource. Is this another questionable plan like ethanol?
This is all expermental stuff. it's far from practical. but you have to start somewhere. The first computer was bigger than a room. They are somewhat better and smaller now, but it took a few years....
Hydrogen may put a smile on his face - for the cameras - but it will put a crimp in our collective wallets for generations.
The promise of H2 is that it can substitute for petroleum based fuels - like gasoline and diesel - in land transport. But it's still too heavy for use with aircraft.
The reality is that H2 for electrical power (via fuel cell), is a net energy loser. It either uses more electricity, for electrolysis -or- it is produced from other hydrocarbons (natural gas).
The worst application for hydrogen is for rail mass transit : hydrolleys / hydrail.
Hydrolley promoters overstate the cost for catenaries, and ignore the glaring problems that face fuel cell vehicles - waste.
My opinion is that traditional catenary overhead power distribution has more benefits, than creating hydrail / hydrolley infrastructure.
1. Electrolysis of H2 requires electricity, hence it will always be less efficient in the use of electrical power. If the source is petroleum or natural gas for the H2, it is doubly wasteful.
2. Every train with a hydrogen fuel cell system will have to carry the fuel cell AND the tank of H2 fuel. Catenary fed electric trains do not carry dead weight and are thus more efficient - and faster.
3. Every Hydrogen powered train will require periodic refueling.
4. H2 will require resources to transport it to refueling stations.
5. Catenary fed electric trains that use regenerative braking can feed the power back into the catenary grid for use by other trains. H2 hydrail would either waste the power -or- have to carry batteries (more dead weight).
6. And lastly, the fastest, lightest trains, are all catenary powered - from Europe to Asia. (Shinkansen, TGV, ICE, Velaro, etc,)
Additionally, the catenary could also become a valuable power transmission conduit for WINDFARMS (T Boone Pickens' problem child).
For urban areas, a suspended power grid for streetcars may be the savior for hybrid / electric vehicles. Municipalities could not only use it to power their hybrid police vehicles, but could sell access to the public - extending the range of their vehicles' battery. If trolley buses can run via catenaries, why not cruisers, trucks, and automobiles?
Don't be fooled by gaseous promises of "tomorrow, tomorrow" and dismiss the catenary. It has been around for over 120 years, and will serve us well.
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Don't be fooled by gaseous promises of "tomorrow, tomorrow" and dismiss the catenary. It has been around for over 120 years, and will serve us well.
Some of my earliest memories of street traffic are in Brooklyn in the early 50's watching the electric busses and the sparks when their rooftop pickups crossed the intersection. All of that has been ripped out and bus service today is much inferior and pollutes much more.
For urban areas, a suspended power grid for streetcars may be the savior for hybrid / electric vehicles. Municipalities could not only use it to power their hybrid police vehicles, but could sell access to the public - extending the range of their vehicles' battery. If trolley buses can run via catenaries, why not cruisers, trucks, and automobiles?
Don't be fooled by gaseous promises of "tomorrow, tomorrow" and dismiss the catenary. It has been around for over 120 years, and will serve us well.
Excellent comments, finally somebody else who sees the simple beauty of trolleybuses. I lived most of my youth in San Francisco and rode electric trolleybuses and streetcars all the time. I have always wondered why so many other cities gave up the quiet, non-polluting trolleybuses that can last literally for millions of miles. The cost per mile compared to diesel buses is radically lower with trolleybuses. There's just a few cities left, SF, Philly, Dayton, Seattle, Boston. Electric overhead powered vehicles make a lot of sense, and they could serve a lot of vehicles besides city buses. I don't think it's necessary to spend the extra millions per mile on rails. Sadly, there are no more trolleybuses made in the US (last factory was shut down 50 yrs ago). Skoda in Czech Rep. makes all the new trolleybuses in SF, Philly and Dayton but I miss the good old Marmon coaches (thousands still rolling on the streets of Mexico City!)
This is the company [GM] that murdered our mass transit system.
The assertion comes from Bradford Snell, a government researcher whose definitive report damning GM has been a vehicular lightening rod since its 1974 debut. Its attackers and defenders are legion. But some facts are irrefutable:
In a 1922 memo that will live in infamy, GM President Alfred P. Sloan established a unit aimed at dumping electrified mass transit in favor of gas-burning cars, trucks and buses.
Just one American family in 10 then owned an automobile. Instead, we loved our 44,000 miles of passenger rail routes managed by 1,200 companies employing 300,000 Americans who ran 15 billion annual trips generating an income of $1 billion. According to Snell, "virtually every city and town in America of more than 2,500 people had its own electric rail system."
But GM lost $65 million in 1921. So Sloan enlisted Standard Oil (now Exxon), Philips Petroleum, glass and rubber companies and an army of financiers and politicians to kill mass transit.
The campaigns varied, as did the economic and technical health of many of the systems themselves. Some now argue that buses would have transcended many of the rail lines anyway. More likely, they would have hybridized and complemented each other.
But with a varied arsenal of political and financial subterfuges, GM helped gut the core of America's train and trolley systems. It was the murder of our rail systems that made our "love affair" with the car a tragedy of necessity.
In 1949 a complex federal prosecution for related crimes resulted in an anti-trust fine against GM of a whopping $5000. For years thereafter GM continued to bury electric rail systems by "bustituting" gas-fired vehicles.
Diesel buses are much more flexible and their infrastructure already is there for cars, so it makes a lot more sense.
The "Age of Oil" is ending. Remember, oil is used not only for fuel, but lubrication, plastics, hoses, synthetic rubber tires, fabrics, and asphalt pavement - which will all become more expensive over time.
Diesel Electric buses have a place, supporting the more efficient rail transit systems.
Here's a European report on a reactivated passenger line.
Seriously, folks, importing 70% of America's petroleum is not sustainable. We can't continue blindly supporting petroleum based transportation and ignore the more efficient alternatives.
We know we have to cut consumption of fuel and transform our society to provide necessities at lowest cost. One of those necessities is transportation. Whether we like it or not, the laws of Physics trump legislation. The overall winner for land based transportation is rail (as in steel wheel on steel rail). And the best propulsion system is powered by electricity - for efficiency and performance. At this time, the most reliable and cost effective way to power electric rail is by catenary (overhead wires).
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Some of my earliest memories of street traffic are in Brooklyn in the early 50's watching the electric busses and the sparks when their rooftop pickups crossed the intersection. All of that has been ripped out and bus service today is much inferior and pollutes much more.
