Electronic Throttle Control vs Cable Throttle Driving Experience (BMW, Isuzu, turbo)
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Or, it is possible that, Agagaga, the person who posted that somewhat paranoid statement over 3 years ago, is still searching for sufficient aluminum foil for making hats, for covering various electronic components, and for lining the walls of his/her house.
Agagaga posted only once, over 3 years ago, and never returned to any of City Data's forums, so perhaps he/she was abducted by space aliens, or...Quien Sabe?
I found that trying to heel and toe downshift was better with my older BMWs with the traditional throttle cable than my DBW MINI Cooper S. Blipping the throttle just reacts faster with the cable actuated throttle.
I own a 1992 Honda Accord and was wondering what the driving experience is like on newer sedans with electronic throttle control vs older sedans with cable throttles? I have read reports of hesitation or lag upon acceleration with electronic throttle and people mentioning the lack of overall road feel and connectivity with the car compared to a car with a conventional throttle cable. Does one ever get used to this or is it an annoyance that makes you want to go back to a car with a conventional throttle cable? Do some cars with electronic throttle control drive the same as those without? In light of the recent problems with electronic throttles, I'm wary of buying a car with one.
I have no issue with it.
I have 2 cars: Camry Hybrid and Ridgeline, both drive by wire.
Both respond just like any other car. What a BS is it about not having "road feel", that is suspension, not throttle statement.
The only issue I have is Camry. As it's Hybrid, her drive is weird anyway. She hesitates only when sitting up a steep hill. And you can not rev her when in P or N. She revs and then ECM kills high RPMs right away. But you can put her into "maintenance mode" and then you can rev her just like any other car.
It depends on the car. Some cars I can't tell a difference in cable vs DBW. Others however, the DBW has a bit of a lag to it that can be annoying. For Porsche, that's one of the first things an aftermarket tuner addresses, by retuning the ECU to reduce that lag time, and give it much more linear acceleration off the line. I had it done and it felt like my turbo lag was cut in half.
There is no reason that there should be any detectable lag, unless the ECU has programming to overrule the driver input. I am now driving a DBW car and I notice no issues. One positive feature is that the ECU will ignore a heavy foot when it will do no good to open up the throttle further. This happens mostly when RPM's are too low and opening the throttle wider is not helping. In this case you need to first down shift and get some more RPS's. This avoids wasting a lot of fuel.
I would like to have a switch to reduce the sensitivity of my pedal. I often try to maintain a steady throttle position as I go up a hill and it gets very touchy (I'm trying to save gas by doing so).
It depends on the car. Some cars I can't tell a difference in cable vs DBW. Others however, the DBW has a bit of a lag to it that can be annoying.
My exact experience as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by amdkt7
I would like to have a switch to reduce the sensitivity of my pedal.
The Honda Civic has the "Eco" button which does almost exactly that (unless you get pretty close to flooring it).
In Eco mode, it also lets the cruise control gradually lose 1-2 MPH going up a hill before it stabilizes. Once up the hill, speed gradually returns to the set point. On automatic transmissions, Eco mode shift points are a couple hundred RPM lower than normal mode under most conditions.
I rented a 2012 Civic for a few days with that feature, and I found myself preferring Eco mode most of the time, except when using the cruise control.
For normal driving in traffic, there wasn't a downside to Eco mode. It saved a tiny bit of fuel by shifting earlier and allowing finer control in low-speed traffic. If I needed to move a little more quickly, I'd just push the pedal a little more than normal, and the transmission/engine would wake right up.
The downside to Eco for me was the cruise control. I understand that it saves fuel by allowing it to slow slightly on a hill, but I'd like to be able to disable that "feature" in Eco mode. Personally, I'd prefer that it just keeps my set speed, which it does with amazing precision in normal mode. I found myself cancelling Eco mode if I hit a hill with cruise control, and forgetting to re-enable it.
I can easily tell/feel the difference between cable and electronic throttle. I prefer cable as it has performed better in every comparison I have experienced and it is a simpler system to diagnose when need be. DBW is cheaper to implement and it allows OEM more control how they want the engine to operate. From an engineering standpoint I completely understand the purpose.
Also, ever stab the throttle on a DBW? You will hit a threshold (in the code) that prevents the throttle servo from actuating the valve too quickly. They limit this to a certain speed, on some vehicles you can stab it all the way to the floor and if it was quick enough, it won’t even register because the code prohibits it. In a commuter car, who cares, but for the performance orientated folk this can be an annoyance. Especially in a manual.
Please, spare the comparisons between automotive and aircraft. Aircraft control systems are light years beyond what you find underneath the hood of your Camry. First off, most components are ultimately actuated using hydraulics and what is electrically actuated utilizes high precision, high resolution servo motors (several $k) vs. cheapo $50 units controlling a little butterfly valve on your engine.
Last edited by Lux Hauler; 06-12-2013 at 02:47 PM..
I can easily tell/feel the difference between cable and electronic throttle. I prefer cable as it has performed better in every comparison I have experienced and it is a simpler system to diagnose when need be. DBW is cheaper to implement and it allows OEM more control how they want the engine to operate. From an engineering standpoint I completely understand the purpose.
Also, ever stab the throttle on a DBW? You will hit a threshold (in the code) that prevents the throttle servo from actuating the valve too quickly. They limit this to a certain speed, on some vehicles you can stab it all the way to the floor and if it was quick enough, it won’t even register because the code prohibits it. In a commuter car, who cares, but for the performance orientated folk this can be an annoyance. Especially in a manual.
Please, spare the comparisons between automotive and aircraft. Aircraft control systems are light years beyond what you find underneath the hood of your Camry. First off, most components are ultimately actuated using hydraulics and what is electrically actuated utilizes high precision, high resolution servo motors (several $k) vs. cheapo $50 units controlling a little butterfly valve on your engine.
+1 I drive both a cable and DWB almost daily and accelerating from a stop is a pain in the DBW, the lag is terrible!
I own a 1992 Honda Accord and was wondering what the driving experience is like on newer sedans with electronic throttle control vs older sedans with cable throttles? I have read reports of hesitation or lag upon acceleration with electronic throttle and people mentioning the lack of overall road feel and connectivity with the car compared to a car with a conventional throttle cable. Does one ever get used to this or is it an annoyance that makes you want to go back to a car with a conventional throttle cable? Do some cars with electronic throttle control drive the same as those without? In light of the recent problems with electronic throttles, I'm wary of buying a car with one.
Drive by wire and electric steering both feel a bit unnatural but in normal driving you can quickly get used to them. They aren't as good as their mechanical counterparts, but they aren't horrible either.
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