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Old 12-11-2013, 10:19 PM
 
Location: Volcano
12,969 posts, read 28,432,349 times
Reputation: 10759

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Remember at the time that the pilots reported something wrong with the throttle?

Today it came out that the pilot did not realize that he had mistakenly set the throttle back to idle...

Asiana Pilot Set Throttles He Didnt Understand to Idle
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Old 12-12-2013, 02:47 PM
 
Location: Gilbert - Val Vista Lakes
6,069 posts, read 14,777,192 times
Reputation: 3876
Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenD View Post
Remember at the time that the pilots reported something wrong with the throttle?

Today it came out that the pilot did not realize that he had mistakenly set the throttle back to idle...

Asiana Pilot Set Throttles He Didnt Understand to Idle
From the article:

"The documents, while showing the pilots made mistakes, raise questions about the design of auto-throttles on Boeing aircraft and whether related training has been adequate. The safety board hasn’t concluded what caused the crash, which killed three teenage girls from China in the first accident in the U.S. with passenger deaths since 2009"


Lee, 45, “believed the auto-throttle should have come out of the idle position to prevent the airplane going below the minimum speed” for landing, the NTSB said in a summary of an interview with him. “That was the theory at least, as he understood it.”
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Old 12-12-2013, 03:36 PM
 
46,946 posts, read 25,979,166 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bill View Post
From the article:

"The documents, while showing the pilots made mistakes, raise questions about the design of auto-throttles on Boeing aircraft and whether related training has been adequate. The safety board hasn’t concluded what caused the crash, which killed three teenage girls from China in the first accident in the U.S. with passenger deaths since 2009"


Lee, 45, “believed the auto-throttle should have come out of the idle position to prevent the airplane going below the minimum speed” for landing, the NTSB said in a summary of an interview with him. “That was the theory at least, as he understood it.”
Good summary here:

Asiana Crash Pilot Set Throttles to Idle: NTSB: Video - Bloomberg

Basically, it appears they used the FLCH mode on the autopilot to correct their path while on final (not recommended practice) - while apparently unaware that FLCH turns off auto-throttle. Then took too long to realize that the auto-throttle wasn't auto-throttling, and the outcome is of course well known by now.
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Old 12-13-2013, 06:44 AM
 
Location: Gilbert - Val Vista Lakes
6,069 posts, read 14,777,192 times
Reputation: 3876
Quote:
from the article:
"Lee Kang ***, asked about his approach to the airport, told safety-board investigators it “was very stressful, very difficult.” He wasn’t accustomed to landing without an instrument-landing system guiding him to the runway, as pilots had to do in San Francisco that day because of airport construction, according to an NTSB summary of his statement...


Asiana since the accident has increased the hours of flight-simulation training its pilots receive and taken ...president of safety and security management, said Dec. "
Lack of sufficient training, in my opinion, while not the only cause, played a large part in this accident.

Every pilot should be trained how to land the airplane without an instrument landing system with it's glide slope indication because there is no guarantee that an ILS will be operating for every landing. It is not that difficult once the technique is learned. Lee Kang *** stated that he "wasn't accustomed to landing without an instrument landing system".

Asiana has now increased their flight training hours. Hopefully, they will train the pilots to land without an ILS.
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Old 12-13-2013, 07:32 AM
 
26,143 posts, read 19,834,641 times
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Unhappy *

Very sad indeed
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Old 12-14-2013, 06:06 PM
 
Location: About 10 miles north of Pittsburgh International
2,458 posts, read 4,203,240 times
Reputation: 2374
Quote:
Lee, 45, “believed the auto-throttle should have come out of the idle position
to prevent the airplane going below the minimum speed” for landing, the NTSB
said in a summary of an interview with him. “That was the theory at least, as he
understood it.”
Heck, I could've told you that.

Oh, look. I did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ditchdigger View Post

I think they didn't quite have a handle on what their systems were up to, and were expecting the autothrottles to keep track of the airspeed, and were rudely surprised when they found themselves out of airspeed, altitude, and ideas....
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Old 12-14-2013, 09:45 PM
 
1,264 posts, read 3,861,139 times
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If he does not know the function of the auto-throttle (speed-control system), he should not be flying that plane. Or was his tea break too short.

The glideslope was out of service then,
http://s.wsj.net/public/resources/im...1211185707.jpg

yet other pilots had no trouble landing their aircrafts.

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Old 12-15-2013, 07:54 AM
 
Location: Gilbert - Val Vista Lakes
6,069 posts, read 14,777,192 times
Reputation: 3876
From the article:
Quote:
"...The documents, while showing the pilots made mistakes, raise questions about the design of auto-throttles on Boeing aircraft and whether related training has been adequate. The safety board hasn’t concluded what caused the crash, which killed three teenage girls from China in the first accident in the U.S. with passenger deaths since 2009..".
From the article, there appears to be several factors involved in this accident:

1. Mistakes made by the pilots (according to the article, based on their interviews)
2. Ignoring, or very slow reaction to one pilots repeated call-out about rapid descent
3. Not monitoring the airspeed indicator and making corrections immediately when speed was low. (At this point there has been no mention of any flight instrument malfunction)
4. Reliance on an automated approach without an operating ILS.
5. Training - not training pilot in techniques for making hand-flown visual approaches without an ILS (SFO runway 28 is not a difficult approach to make)
6. Training - apparent insufficient training on the autopilot/autothrottle system.
7. Possible design flaw in the autothrottle system that would allow the computer to assume the pilot wanted the throttle to remain at idle when the throttle is manually adjusted but not turned off.
8. Failure of the pilots to monitor the flight instrument indicators to make sure the autopilot was performing correctly with the airplane remaining on course and on speed - and not making immediate corrections when the flight instruments indicated a high rate of descent, and the airspeed reducing below the target speed.
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Old 12-18-2013, 06:29 PM
 
5 posts, read 6,663 times
Reputation: 10
Luke 9:58 And Jesus said unto him, Foxes have holes, and birds of the air*have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay*his*head.
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Old 12-18-2013, 08:16 PM
 
Location: Metro Washington DC
15,430 posts, read 25,807,497 times
Reputation: 10450
Quote:
Originally Posted by verses View Post
Luke 9:58 And Jesus said unto him, Foxes have holes, and birds of the air*have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay*his*head.
... and the Pilot didn't know where to land the plane.
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