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In that time, there has never been a better time than now to be a pilot looking for a job.
You sound Gen-X. A Boomer would be appalled at how little pilots are compensated compared to the immense responsibility they have. The last flight I was on the pilot had 225 souls in his hands. That he is making less than $150K/yr is unthinkable and unforgivable. I was looking at an occupation overview handbook and the entry for Airline Pilot read something like this: "Airline Pilot" related occupations "Bus Driver", "Truck Driver". My brother is an over the road semi driver with a CDL. I don't think he compares what he does with piloting commercial airliners!!!
My understanding is that it's been many decades since "the military" has been the training ground for civilian ATP aviation ... that era ended by the late 1960's/early 1970's.
simply due to the expense of the training and maintaining proficiency for the military type flying requirements, the "military" can't afford to let $mil+ training costs walk out the door with a minimal time active duty in the service.
hence, they raised the compensation for pilots to retain them in the service. And for many of them, there's no comparable equipment in the civilian sector in terms of performance or mission profiles ... which can be a big factor in the attraction of military flying.
Thanks to the latest hour requirements for ATP's, the aviation industry is heading for a severe cutback in qualified pilots. There will be a reckoning. The allure of aviation isn't enough to offset the high costs of 1,500 hours of flight time and low initial compensation for the first few years. My bet is the majors will have to make a commitment to new hires early in their flight training to help pay for the training costs and flight time as a qualified would-be pro progresses towards that 1,500 hours. Gotta' be a quid pro pro somewhere along the line where an individual makes steady progress towards the requirements and gets reimbursed along the way with a decent paying job waiting at the end of the training.
The bolded item^^^
I recently started working with a military pilot and was stunned when I learned how much he makes. Let's just say it's more than what all but the most senior of airline pilots at the majors make. Granted, he has to spend months of time deployed with some of that time in combat zones, but he also gets a lot of additional perks and benefits amounting to tens of thousands of dollars a year that the civilian pilots don't get (like paying zero state income taxes and receiving non-taxable combat pay just for starters). Plus he'll be able to retire from the military after 20 years if he wants to by his mid-forties with a lifetime pension and cheap (at least compared to what the rest of us will have to pay) lifetime medical care and still be able to work a whole new career for another 20 years if he wants. I don't begrudge him his pay and benefits because very few have his skills and he is in a dangerous occupation, but it's easy to see why he's chosen a military career rather than going the civilian pilot route.
Not to mention there's very few jobs in the world that command a higher level of respect and admiration (basically that "WoW you're a fighter pilot?!") from people than being a military pilot. Civilian pilots command respect as well, but not like the military pilots do.
Last edited by patches403; 05-17-2016 at 11:53 AM..
I recently started working with a military pilot and was stunned when I learned how much he makes. Let's just say it's more than what all but the most senior of airline pilots at the majors make. Granted, he has to spend months of time deployed with some of that time in combat zones, but he also gets a lot of additional perks and benefits amounting to tens of thousands of dollars a year that the civilian pilots don't get (like paying zero state income taxes and receiving non-taxable combat pay just for starters). Plus he'll be able to retire from the military after 20 years if he wants to by his mid-forties with a lifetime pension and cheap (at least compared to what the rest of us will have to pay) lifetime medical care and still be able to work a whole new career for another 20 years if he wants. I don't begrudge him his pay and benefits because very few have his skills and he is in a dangerous occupation, but it's easy to see why he's chosen a military career rather than going the civilian pilot route.
Not to mention there's very few jobs in the world that command a higher level of respect and admiration (basically that "WoW you're a fighter pilot?!") from people than being a military pilot. Civilian pilots command respect as well, but not like the military pilots do.
Hell, as a civilian airline pilot I feel like all I command is disrespect. Passengers are pissed, flying sucks, security lines suck, and so they vent on us for issues I have absolutely no control over, the hotels treat us like second-class citizens, rampers hate us, gate agents REAAALLY hate us, crew schedulers would feed us to the dogs if given a chance, because hey, we are superhuman and shouldn't need to dilly dally with minor issues such as getting at least bare minimum legal rest. Oh and god forbid we don't land soft as feather. Never mind the fact we got them to the destination safely with Pack 1 MEL'D and through storms doing their best to ruin our (and their) day.
Anyway, to get off my pedestal there...So the Delta pilots are seeking a 40% raise. This would bring them back to what they lost after Delta's bankruptcy several years ago. I sure read and heard a lot of negative bs about this (granted, thanks to a lot of misleading info put out by the airline itself). "Those greedy pilots! They are already rich, have an easy job, tickets are too expensive, and they want a raise! GRRR!" People are so ignorant.
I don't care what they say. Real pilots and real air traffic controllers will be cheaper than artificial ones for a very long time. Real pilots need to eat and if you threaten them with a lock-out they will fly for $50k/yr. The brokers for the automated systems will not accept a penny less than what they think the technology is worth. And they don't need to eat. Neither the machines nor the tech companies that build them.
There is not a shortage of pilots, there is a shortage of pilots willing to work for $16.00/hr (Jetblue starting wage in NY City).... not enough money to make student loan payments, or rent an apartment
there is no trucker shortage either, the companies that pay $50,000+/year have no openings and are hiring from a waiting list........ the low end companies (think: Swift etc) that start at $24,000/yr have constant turnover and are always whining about some imaginary trucker shortage
Back to Airlines: the small regional carriers, Allegiant and the like can only continue to offer ridiculously low fares if they can continue to find qualified pilots at slave wages
There is not a shortage of pilots, there is a shortage of pilots willing to work for $16.00/hr (Jetblue starting wage in NY City).... not enough money to make student loan payments, or rent an apartment
Jetblue first year pay is a min of $45k, second year $78k, most junior CA is under four years there or around $165k, hardly anywhere near $16/hr. Whomever told you that was off their rocker.
Jetblue first year pay is a min of $45k, second year $78k, most junior CA is under four years there or around $165k, hardly anywhere near $16/hr. Whomever told you that was off their rocker.
If you make $45k/yr but work 85hr/wk most weeks what does that average out to?
Jetblue first year pay is a min of $45k, second year $78k, most junior CA is under four years there or around $165k, hardly anywhere near $16/hr. Whomever told you that was off their rocker.
could you please provide a source? link?
this is in sharp contrast to the numbers provided by the schools, such as ATP and the like for salaries for mesa-air, jetblue, allegiant and the other cheapie regionals
this is in sharp contrast to the numbers provided by the schools, such as ATP and the like for salaries for mesa-air, jetblue, allegiant and the other cheapie regionals
Even most regionals are now starting out first year at around $35/hr.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm
If you make $45k/yr but work 85hr/wk most weeks what does that average out to?
This is definitely a problem with this occupation (and for flight attendants as well). We are only paid for 'flight hours', ie brake released, doors closed. All the preflight paperwork, programming, weather and NOTAMs review, dispatch briefings, MEL procedures, dealing with boarding/deboarding issues, ATC delays at the gate, etc, is unpaid. Well, there is 'per diem', but no one counts that is it's normally $2/hour or less. So to make up for all the free work, we have to get our hourly rate as high as possible. The common lay person sees $100/hr (or whatever) rate for the pilot and thinks "holy moly that's good money!", but fails to recognize we get paid on average less than 1000 hours per year, less than half that of a normal full time employee. If asked, I tell passengers that anytime you can see the pilot, he is unpaid. If you can't see him, ie he is in the cockpit with the door closed, then he is making money. But then upon landing, as soon as the brake is set, door is open, he's now on his own time again; as he says by to you as you leave, is calling maintenance, filling out the aircraft logbook, etc. He/she is most definitely still working, but for free.
Last edited by 11thHour; 05-18-2016 at 04:51 PM..
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