Another Mob Robs Light St. 7-11 and Beats Store Owner (Baltimore: crimes, felon)

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by EdwardA

I said OR and property doesn't have to mean real estate. Frankly I think universal suffrage leads to a Curley effect, which is what is going on in Baltimore and in the USA at large. Politicians play to the lowest common denominator promising government goodies by taxing the productive which leads to disinvestment and eventually collapse.

It should be pointed out that a lot of the early democracies that folks hold dear, America, French, British and even the Greeks had property owning requirements.

How Property Taxes and the 'Curley Effect' Are Killing Baltimore - WSJ.com

And how did that help people who DIDN'T own property?

[davecj]

Back then many worked their way out of debt and indentured servitude so that they could own property and contribute to society.

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by davecj

Back then many worked their way out of debt and indentured servitude so that they could own property and contribute to society.

Well, these days we don't have indentured servitude. Whether or not I own property, I want to have a say in MY life, and voting is part of that. When I can vote, it means I have a say.

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by sibelian

Black people are not going to lose their voting rights so it's pointless for you to worry about this ... it's never going to happen. It's also pointless for you to worry about people who think that blacks, or renters, or illiterates, should lose their voting rights, because while those people are entitled to their opinions, IT'S NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN.

Maybe what you SHOULD worry about are things like this:

1. In some cities, more than half of all young adult black men are currently under correctional control: in prison or jail, on probation or parole. Read "The New Jim Crow" by Michelle Alexander.

2. A 2007 report by the Bureau of Justice Statistics reveals that approximately 8,000 - and, in certain years, as many as 9,000 - African Americans are murdered annually in the United States. This figure is accompanied by another fact: that 93% of these murders are in fact perpetrated by other blacks.

3. In 2009, no white men were killed in Cincinnati, but 44 black males and 11 black females were killed there.

I can list statistics like this all day. You can extrapolate any conclusions you wish, but the next time you see someone crossing the street while you're headed in their direction, you might want to excuse their legitimate concerns.

It is true that the statistics are not in my favor. I never said I wasn't worried about getting murdered. That being said, it isn't the only thing I'm worried about. I do worry about what other people think of Blacks. I do worry about the person trying to avoid me when I'm walking down the street because no matter what their concerns are, I'm still affected.

At the end of the day, I have ME to worry about because I live here. I live in this society. If I am going to live in this society, then I must be treated fairly, according to my deeds. I this is a society where one's individual merit is suppose to be the litmus test, then why should an individual be judged based on what other people in that group have done? What does the INDIVIDUAL get out of it?

[LoveToRow]

Originally Posted by green_mariner

It is true that the statistics are not in my favor. I never said I wasn't worried about getting murdered. That being said, it isn't the only thing I'm worried about. I do worry about what other people think of Blacks. I do worry about the person trying to avoid me when I'm walking down the street because no matter what their concerns are, I'm still affected.

At the end of the day, I have ME to worry about because I live here. I live in this society. If I am going to live in this society, then I must be treated fairly, according to my deeds. I this is a society where one's individual merit is suppose to be the litmus test, then why should an individual be judged based on what other people in that group have done? What does the INDIVIDUAL get out of it?

Glad to see you're opposed to affirmative action.

[ToneGrail]

Originally Posted by pgtitans

** applause **

Man couldn't have said it better myself.

Seconded!

[ToneGrail]

Originally Posted by EdwardA

I'm not a big believer in universal suffrage for the reasons you cite. I think there should be an education or property owning requirement before one is allowed to vote.

I think that there should be a requirement that one has paid income taxes to be able to vote. That way, the those who actually have a personal financial stake invested in the government get to make the decisions as opposed to those that are leeching off the government. An exception can be made for those who have prior or current military service.

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by ToneGrail

I think that there should be a requirement that one has paid income taxes to be able to vote. That way, the those who actually have a personal financial stake invested in the government get to make the decisions as opposed to those that are leeching off the government. An exception can be made for those who have prior or current military service.

What about those persons who get laid off and are trying their best to find jobs? My father has been in that position a few times, and I'm currently in the position of being laid off and currently looking for work. If I am in a position where I'm in some kind of struggle, I would at least like to have a say over what happens to me, what the government does. If something affects me, I need to have a say in it. This suggestion of paying income tax and other stuff sounds very reminiscent of the Jim Crow era voting laws.

Ironically, there are many voters who do work, who don't want to pay any taxes, and would vote not to pay income tax.

[EdwardA]

Originally Posted by ToneGrail

I think that there should be a requirement that one has paid income taxes to be able to vote. That way, the those who actually have a personal financial stake invested in the government get to make the decisions as opposed to those that are leeching off the government. An exception can be made for those who have prior or current military service.

I'm cool with that as well. In fact it's probably more fair than my earlier suggestion.

[ToneGrail]

Originally Posted by green_mariner

What about those persons who get laid off and are trying their best to find jobs? My father has been in that position a few times, and I'm currently in the position of being laid off and currently looking for work. If I am in a position where I'm in some kind of struggle, I would at least like to have a say over what happens to me, what the government does. If something affects me, I need to have a say in it. This suggestion of paying income tax and other stuff sounds very reminiscent of the Jim Crow era voting laws.

Ironically, there are many voters who do work, who don't want to pay any taxes, and would vote not to pay income tax.

Or even better, eliminate the income tax altogether and replace it with the national sales tax and let everyone vote except felons. That would be the fairest way to do it.