Baltimore Population Loss Study (Pikesville, Owings Mills: foreclosures, rent, crimes)

[nurider2002]

Originally Posted by Da2yoots

I'm lucky not to be trapped in an inner city Baltimore existence. The combination of poverty and Baltimore sounds like a hideous fate.

But if I were, I would be willing to tolerate, and encourage, the following actions with my local politicians:

1) Highlight violent crime hot spots. Particularly for murder and assault. Set up police checkpoints in said areas, stop all traffic, exit all passengers, search for guns and drugs. Run checkpoints the way they run sobriety checkpoints.

2) Stop and frisk young men in high-crime areas. Carrying a weapon with a felony record = mandatory 2 yrs in prison. Sorry about your bruised ego, if you are innocent. Better than being dead (except for city activists, who probably don't live there).

3) Initiate curfews, 10 pm to 5 am. Trespassers get searched, hassled, spend a night in jail.

The inevitable comeback is, "would you tolerate this in your neighborhood??!!" The answer is "yes", if there was the same degree of violent crime. These are draconian measures to deal with desperate times. Crime is a cancer that is eating the city for everybody, rich and poor.

I would not tolerate that in any neighborhood, I'd rather have dealers running the corners and ducking for cover. What country does yours sound like? Police cannot solve Baltimore's woes and government can only do so much. Baltimore poverty is so entrenched in the culture that to change it would require more action on the part of individuals and communities than you are ever going to see. So, with time gentrification will spread, relocating the poorest of the poor to other areas but, city wide change ain't gonna happen in our lifetime. Of course I moved out of the state to get away from the taxes and crappy weather but with all my family still there, I'm still inclined to visit Baltimore 3 or 4 times a year. Just long enough to get a good crab cake, raw oysters and catch up on the live music scene - the good things remaining in that town.

[North Beach Person]

Originally Posted by bufflove

Eh, I lived in DC during the time of Trinidad checkpoints (which were ultimately found to be illegal) and nothing discussed above was even that specific. You can't simply checkpoint inner city neighborhoods, nor remove people from cars and search them for no reason, nor stop and frisk people just because they're "young men," nor initiate blanket curfews.

I honestly don't care what Bill Clinton supported or fought against; he's beyond ancient news.

Clinton may be "ancient news" but there is precedent for declaring crime Hot Spots and focusing resources on them. In any event, a local jurisdiction has very wide latitude in those cases.


Well constructed legislation and implementation will allow you to enact stop and frisk (note, the objections of the NY judge were to the implementation and not the law itself. NYPD changed procedures and continued the practice until Mayor DeBlasio suspended it. O' Malley had much the same program in Baltimore while he was Mayor and there was nary a peep about it. Strange.


Same way with traffic checkpoints. Stop all the cars and if probable cause is established a search can be commenced. You see that, regardless of your own opinion, for sobriety checkpoints and they've been upheld by the Supreme Court.


Same with curfews. Write a tight law with exceptions in it and it passes muster.


As far as "pinpointing" a neighborhood. I can absolutely guarantee that if I, a middle aged White man, was spotted by an Annapolis police officer going into Newtowne Twenty I would be stopped, frisked and my vehicle would be searched. I would also be a victim of profiling, but that's another discussion.

[pappjohn]

Dangerous schools are another problem in Baltimore. Private schools are the only safe option in the city. That is if you can afford them.

[EdwardA]

Originally Posted by bufflove

Eh, I lived in DC during the time of Trinidad checkpoints (which were ultimately found to be illegal) and nothing discussed above was even that specific. You can't simply checkpoint inner city neighborhoods, nor remove people from cars and search them for no reason, nor stop and frisk people just because they're "young men," nor initiate blanket curfews.

I honestly don't care what Bill Clinton supported or fought against; he's beyond ancient news.

Actually you can, Terry v. Ohio.

[EdwardA]

Originally Posted by North Beach Person

Clinton may be "ancient news" but there is precedent for declaring crime Hot Spots and focusing resources on them. In any event, a local jurisdiction has very wide latitude in those cases.


Well constructed legislation and implementation will allow you to enact stop and frisk (note, the objections of the NY judge were to the implementation and not the law itself. NYPD changed procedures and continued the practice until Mayor DeBlasio suspended it. O' Malley had much the same program in Baltimore while he was Mayor and there was nary a peep about it. Strange.


Same way with traffic checkpoints. Stop all the cars and if probable cause is established a search can be commenced. You see that, regardless of your own opinion, for sobriety checkpoints and they've been upheld by the Supreme Court.


Same with curfews. Write a tight law with exceptions in it and it passes muster.


As far as "pinpointing" a neighborhood. I can absolutely guarantee that if I, a middle aged White man, was spotted by an Annapolis police officer going into Newtowne Twenty I would be stopped, frisked and my vehicle would be searched. I would also be a victim of profiling, but that's another discussion.

Exactly, some liberal politician outlawing something unilaterally doesn't make it unconstitutional. A liberal judge in NYC also doesn't have the final say in matters.

[bufflove]

Originally Posted by EdwardA

Actually you can, Terry v. Ohio.

Originally Posted by North Beach Person

Clinton may be "ancient news" but there is precedent for declaring crime Hot Spots and focusing resources on them. In any event, a local jurisdiction has very wide latitude in those cases.


Well constructed legislation and implementation will allow you to enact stop and frisk (note, the objections of the NY judge were to the implementation and not the law itself. NYPD changed procedures and continued the practice until Mayor DeBlasio suspended it. O' Malley had much the same program in Baltimore while he was Mayor and there was nary a peep about it. Strange.


Same way with traffic checkpoints. Stop all the cars and if probable cause is established a search can be commenced. You see that, regardless of your own opinion, for sobriety checkpoints and they've been upheld by the Supreme Court.


Same with curfews. Write a tight law with exceptions in it and it passes muster.


As far as "pinpointing" a neighborhood. I can absolutely guarantee that if I, a middle aged White man, was spotted by an Annapolis police officer going into Newtowne Twenty I would be stopped, frisked and my vehicle would be searched. I would also be a victim of profiling, but that's another discussion.

Not even remotely close to what the other guy suggested.

[MDude25]

If you move to Baltimore you will be hit with higher taxes. Parking permits aside ($25 for street for 1 year, or some apts charge $130-$150 a month), your car insurance will dramatically go up because you now live in a high crime city, Baltimore city imposes a 3.2% income tax on residents (for comparison neighboring counties Baltimore: 2.83% and Anne Arundel 2.5%), plus the city has one of the highest effective cell phone tax rates in the country. That's right just owning a cell phone you will be hit with a Baltimore city tax for every single line on your plan and the costs all add up.

If that isn't enough there is the abundant and prevalent crime, and its not just limited to "bad areas" but criminals know to go to nicer areas such as Federal Hill, Canton, and Mt. Vernon --these areas also face violent crime.

Summer is coming to Baltimore and for you city residents and yuppies prepare for the summer crime wave.

[pappjohn]

The car insurance rates in all of Maryland went up after the riots. A few more riots in Baltimore and nobody will be able to afford car insurance. Everyone pays for that type of crime.

[BMoreJuice]

We hear allot about higher taxes in Baltimore City than the rest of Maryland. While this is true, it really hasn't discouraged the affluent area's in Baltimore. Housing prices in the county and beyond are very expensive. People are still hopefully about the cut In property taxes, but basic economics tells us that it will never happen. Apparently, many people are surviving with higher taxes. After all, if you live in an affluent Baltimore neighborhood, they are some of the most beautiful and well planned. If I had the money, I would pick a beautiful Roland Parker over a ugly over priced county modern. After all, Baltimore County's housing industry historically profits off of white flight.

Anyhow, my conclusion is that the real factors that are halting people in moving to the city is poor public schools and crime. People will justify anything In order to get what they want. People cannot justify moving to the city without proper services or safety. While I never feel 100% safe in Baltimore, I never feel unsafe either.

[MDude25]

Baltimore is one big sh1thole, none of the surrounding counties like it nor does much of the state, that should tell you something. It has a few uses and a few blocks that are acceptable. However who wants to live in a city were you are isolated in safe zones a few blocks wide? People with low standards and that reflects much of that city's population. The people who argue Baltimore is a great, good, growing, whatever positive attribute they give it are delusional or just down right ignorant. Those people have low standards and probably haven't traveled much.

It's a pos city, extremely high violent crime rate (and yes even in the "good" areas), slums everywhere, high taxation, high car insurance, terrible: roads, police, government, schools, and people. The few neighborhoods that people here are calling "nice" after a short while get boring easily, you have a lot of carbon copy people who lack any high culture. Are there good people living in Baltimore? Yes, absolutely. However, I'm talking about much of the city.