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I didn't mean "palming" as in having gigantic hands and grabbing the basketball with one hand. That's the type of "palming" Jordan did. By "palming," I meant borderline carrying the basketball.
You're seriously telling me Jordan didn't palm the ball? He started the whole palming thing back in the late 80s and early 90s. He was notorious for carrying and traveling. Jordan and Pippen got away with almost anything they wanted. Only ref who called anything on them consistently was Hugh Hollins and the Bulls hated him with a passion. See the 1994 series against the Knicks and the 1996 series against the Sonics. Hollins went after them.
He was one of the captains on the team, he shot wayyyy too much....and he was partying while there. So yeah, I put a lot of the blame on him.
Here was his 2007 playoff stats with Denver. He took over 20 shots every game and shot aroun 36% for the series....but that's somehow everybody elses fault.
A lot of people love him because they identify with his style or like his grit and small stature, I totally get that.
However, when it comes down too it he had horrible FG% while shooting tons and was never considered much of a defender.
The guy is clearly a HOFer, I just don't think he's as highly rated as some of you because we seem to appreciate different things. He was definitely *flashy* and would explode on people for 40pts....but then turn around the next game and score 20pts on 7/25 shooting which people tend to get amnesia about.
Lets forget how many shots Carmelo Anthony took at game. Lets forget that he has yet to make an NBA Finals appearance. Of course you give Carmelo a pass.
Yall don't like to talk about the man but he is one of the top 5 all-around most influential players in NBA history.. from playing style to fashion aesthetic. He was the one to upgrade basketball out of the Jordan era. Little tough man. What I liked most abut him was that he appreciated the fans as much as we did him. The went out to win AND give the people their money's worth.
Iverson was a very good scorer, but let's not forget how he was also known for taking bad shots and not giving the ball up to teammates.
Guy is a tremendous talent, but his own worse enemy ....... it's a shame that he could never quite get out of his own way in any aspect of life
Once that ball was tossed he was such a hard nosed player ..... they built that team in Philly to play into him as the offense - he would give up the ball, but that wasn't the design ... it ultimately led to a very good, but not great team .... a strong defensive team (Iverson was a very willing, but undersized defender frequently put into passing lanes) that relied on his bursts to compliment the more steady guys on the team
However, for all that effort he put into the actual game he frequently didn't "get it" when it came to practice, working with his teamates, etc. He felt he didn't need to put in those hours as long as he put in 100% during the game - problem was, his teamates needed to put in those hours with him so they could be more effective in the game as well.
He was great in the community, but completely aloof in dealing with the media
Now he's another drunk who is throwing away his fortune and family on the quick path to a very sad ending .... I hope he can finally start to put the whole thing together
I definitely enjoyed watching him play and he's probably one of the main guys that watching live provided a much better appreciation .... to see him take the ball and work it 3/4 of the court, cutting defenders and then finishing while getting slammed into the baseline chairs to pop up and still beat most guys to the half court line was exciting and impressive
Lets forget how many shots Carmelo Anthony took at game. Lets forget that he has yet to make an NBA Finals appearance. Of course you give Carmelo a pass.
That's a sweet strawman seeing as how I'm not the one making statements about melo being a top 5 sf all-time or other wild claims about his awesomeness.
If you want to start a thread on Carmelos dismal shooting percentage I will be happy to comment.
(I've also dogged on Kobe <gasp> when he's shot too much at a bad % at times in his career....he just hasn't done it most of his career. )
I personally rate Iverson over melo but both are heading for the HOF eventually.
However, for all that effort he put into the actual game he frequently didn't "get it" when it came to practice, working with his teamates, etc. He felt he didn't need to put in those hours as long as he put in 100% during the game - problem was, his teamates needed to put in those hours with him so they could be more effective in the game as well.
"How in the hell can I make my teammates better by practicing?"
It was shocking that after that run to the 2001 NBA Finals Iverson never got pass the 2nd round again with the Sixers. That was the highest point of his career after the 2001 season and then everything went downhill after that.
It was shocking that after that run to the 2001 NBA Finals Iverson never got pass the 2nd round again with the Sixers. That was the highest point of his career after the 2001 season and then everything went downhill after that.
I think somewhere around there is when due to age and starting too have a few too many....he began to decline. I'm not condemning him, I honestly feel bad for his struggles (or anybodys). He was certainly not alone, a number of bigtime NBA players have struggled with various off-court problems.
I think somewhere around there is when due to age and starting too have a few too many....he began to decline. I'm not condemning him, I honestly feel bad for his struggles (or anybodys). He was certainly not alone, a number of bigtime NBA players have struggled with various off-court problems.
Well definitely wasn't age because he was 26 at the start of the 2001-2002 NBA season which is 2 years younger than Lebron james is now heading into the 2013-14 NBA season.
Roam respects that post, but when I said influential, I meant leaving a lasting impression on aspects of the game/league. I would take LBJ of that list.
What Magic did was new.. Fast paced, exciting, flashy style of play.
Dr J... Supreme Athletics - the pre cursor to Jordan
Jordan.. relentless will to win that could be felt through the TV. Unbefore seen feats and moves that defied the imagination.
Yes they are influential.
On a whole, what LBJ does is nothing new. He just does it much better than the people who influenced him, which are other tall ballhandling/slashing types like Magic Johnson and moreso, Tracy Mcgrady. When we start to see more mobile, well rounded big men in the vein of Lebron and Kevin Durant then we can say that he's leaving some sort of influence.
Being dominating and well rounded alone may make you an influential player in-game. But I'm talking over the long-run.
In my original post I said top 5 most influential players OVERALL. His influence comes from players like Isaiah Thomas, but he upped the ante. Before him you had guards like Gary Payton and Stockton, after him you have Derrick Rose, CP3, Rondo, etc. I don't think Gary Payton, much less Stockton could play defense on ANY of them.. I don't even know if Jordan In his prime would be able to guard them with the skills they posses in this day and that's what I meant by "upgrading the game after Jordan". Certain players come in and cause a paradigm shift. What Iverson did that was new was being barely 6 feet and able to either shake a whole team or fly into a whole team of 5 giants and score consistently.. and sometimes in the process, even dunk on people 4-5 inches taller than Lebron James. That was new.
You have to remember too, your man was the first one to come tatted and cornrowed up. The one before him was Rodman in 96. He was tatted up but he looked like a reject punkstar with the green hair and nose ring. No one followed that lead. When Iverson did it, it became law. Iverson came with the streetwear, it became law. When he used medical supplies as in-game fashion, it became law.. and is still going on to this day (the arm sleeve that half the NBA wears). Yes your boy Iverson started that.
If you know your hip hop, the best way to put it is like this..
Jordan took the NBA from the Run DMC times to Rakim Era and Iverson upgraded it from the Rakim Era to the Illmatic Nas era. The game is the process of being upgraded once again though.
LBJ was last on my list - no problem there with Iverson being past him - even though today's generation may disagree.
You are looking at it from a more societal standpoint than an NBA standpoint. You could say that in the hip-hop community that Iverson had more of an influence than Larry Bird - but in the whole country, no way.
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I'm not condemning him, I honestly feel bad for his struggles (or anybodys). He was certainly not alone, a number of bigtime NBA players have struggled with various off-court problems. 
