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The hate came when he left Cleveland the first time via the Decision on national television.When he joined Wade & Bosh in Miami to form the Super Team and brag about winning 8 rings it was like whoa this guy sold out to chase rings instead of keep knocking on the door like Mj
His fan's will tell you he had no help in Cleveland but the Cavs had multiple 60 win seasons before he left.You dont win that much without help,You probably carry them like Kobe in 06 or Russell in 17 but you don't win 66 or 65 games doing it alone.
I believed he panicked in 2010 after he couldn't get past Boston and thought about how Malone and Barkley both retired.
I mean it's not against the rules what he did because Boston did it but those guys were at the end of their prime careers.Lebron followed suit so than Durant just did what Lebron did to even things out.Lebron has literally embarrassed the eastern conference because all the talent is on his team.Highest payroll in history and he said that's not enough lol
I mean he's a top 10 great player but he didn't do it the Jordan way.There's no way Jordan will join Reggie miller and Barkley to form a SuperTeam against Detroit or Bodton,He just kept knocking at the door until he broke it down.
I keep telling people that his first 3peat bulls team wasn't even stacked.Jordan just had a super killer instinct and willed his team to victory.
The hate came when he left Cleveland the first time via the Decision on national television.When he joined Wade & Bosh in Miami to form the Super Team and brag about winning 8 rings it was like whoa this guy sold out to chase rings instead of keep knocking on the door like Mj
this i agree with. i started disliking him with the decision and then cemented it with "not 1 not 2 not 3..."
His fan's will tell you he had no help in Cleveland but the Cavs had multiple 60 win seasons before he left.You dont win that much without help,You probably carry them like Kobe in 06 or Russell in 17 but you don't win 66 or 65 games doing it alone.
in technicality 2 is a "multiple" but lets not act like he was chasing 73 wins. he had 2 seasons over 50 wins before he left.
I believed he panicked in 2010 after he couldn't get past Boston and thought about how Malone and Barkley both retired.
I mean it's not against the rules what he did because Boston did it but those guys were at the end of their prime careers.Lebron followed suit so than Durant just did what Lebron did to even things out.Lebron has literally embarrassed the eastern conference because all the talent is on his team.Highest payroll in history and he said that's not enough lol
I mean he's a top 10 great player but he didn't do it the Jordan way.There's no way Jordan will join Reggie miller and Barkley to form a SuperTeam against Detroit or Bodton,He just kept knocking at the door until he broke it down.
I keep telling people that his first 3peat bulls team wasn't even stacked.Jordan just had a super killer instinct and willed his team to victory.
all that jordan talk, move on bro, this thread isnt even about jordan.
next youll bring up kobe, and then youll tell us all how jordan said kobe was the next greatest thing since... well jordan.
all that jordan talk, move on bro, this thread isnt even about jordan.
next youll bring up kobe, and then youll tell us all how jordan said kobe was the next greatest thing since... well jordan.
#YourArgumentsAreTired
Just threw Jordan in there since that's the ghost he's chasing lol
You chase Jordan than you do it the Jordan way !!
No teaming up or forming SuperTeams !!
Kyrie isn't the closer on no Jordan team !!!!
Everyone is chasing Jordan because he's the greatest but Lebron is really the next Oscar Robertson.
Jordan is unreachable at this point,You want to be the Goat than you lead your team to a 3peat with 70 win seasons !!
Location: Formerly Pleasanton Ca, now in Marietta Ga
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I've always wondered how LeBron would have been as a football player. With his size speed and skill I can't help but wonder what a devastating tight end he would have been. I've said many times that if I was On the court the last guy I will be getting in the way of coming down the court at full speed for a dunk is LeBron. Too much speed and power.
He is also very successful and charismatic off the court. I'd say he is quite possibly the most influential athelete in sports. When you are at that level, you are going to have detractors no matter who you are. When you get them like he does, you know you are a someone.
I still have to dislike him a little because I am a warrior fan though.
I think the reasons I don't like LeBron are different from the reasons other basketball fans don't like him. I think most people got bent out of shape about The Decision and never quite got over it.
The Decision didn't bother me in particular, because had I been in his shoes I would have made the same professional move (although I probably wouldn't have rejected my hometown fans so publicly). When LeBron was competing for titles in Miami and the hate was at its peak, that's when I was cheering him on the strongest. I thought everyone outside of Cleveland who was so upset about it was overreacting, and I was tired of so many people refusing to acknowledge him as the game's best player because he had the misfortune of being on mediocre to poor teams through the first seven years of his career.
After LeBron won titles in Miami and finally returned to Cleveland, it seems a lot of the hate subsided. But ironically that's when he started to get on my nerves. Why? Because I think that's when LeBron got entitled and lazy with his game.
LeBron was at his peak in Miami because he had maximum motivation along with an organization that ran a tight ship. Pat Riley stuck with Coach Spo when LeBron hesitated to embrace him, and they both directly challenged LeBron to better himself when the Big 3 didn't gel as quickly or as strongly as expected. LeBron stopped trying to play point guard, went into the post, and banged out a couple of titles. But those titles might have warped his brain.
When he went back to Cleveland LeBron immediately reverted to playing the kind of ball that couldn't get him over the hump in the first place: even though he's on a team that needs elevated play from its big men, and he's built like Karl Malone, he chooses to live on the perimeter both offensively and defensively. When LeBron's refusing to guard bigs, he makes the Cavs rely on Kevin Love's questionable ability to stop anyone underneath. And when he's bringing up the ball on offensive, he's forcing the Cavs' All-NBA point guard out of position just so he can play iso ball, make lazy passes, and turn the ball over. Why doesn't he just get underneath and take higher percentage shots? Let his point guard bring up the ball and feed him in the post? Instead he does iso drives to the basket, turns over the ball, and puts the team at an even greater disadvantage defensively because it's much harder to defend as a unit in transition.
And what's with all this public whining to management about the roster every time the team hits a slump? For the past seven years LeBron has come closer to handpicking his teammates than has any NBA star ever. A team with LeBron James, Kyrie Irving, Kevin Love, Tristan Thompson and Kyle Korver can't win games and it's management's fault? Nah. If LeBron played better fundamental basketball more consistently instead of just lazily getting by on his insane raw talent, the Cavs would be more competitive with the Warriors outside of that once-in-a-lifetime 3 game comeback from last year.
LeBron will be competitive for a few more years but I doubt he wins another title. Even if he retired today, I'd honestly rank him as the second best player in NBA history. But he won't become the best, and I think it'll be more due to his entitled mentality and the choices he's made with his game than with his not having the talent or ability to get there.
I'm a long time Lebron fan, but I wasn't always that way...
I'll be 28 on Sunday, so I grew up in the era that brought in Lebron, KD, Paul, Westbrook, Howard, Wade, Anthony, Gasol. I grew up in the era that saw Kobe, Nowitzki, and Duncan in their primes. I know everybody saw the same thing, but what I'm really saying is because of when I was born, that era of basketball is what shaped me to the game. Some of you older guys were shaped by the 90s, 80s, 70s. The 00s is the era that brought me into fandom and shaped me, and my most vivid memories come partially from that era...
My favorite player from the vaunted class of 2003 was Carmelo for a long time. I admired Lebron and his raw talent coming out of high school, but I wasn't a fan. I was a Wade and CP3 guy before I was a Lebron guy. I didn't dislike him, but I wasn't a fan...
The Decision irked me and though I didn't hate him, I finally had a reason to dislike him. I rooted against him in 2011 and was very happy Dallas won. I rooted against him in 2012 and when he won, I was in the group that said "it was a short season, I'm not convinced. He's great but they took advantage of a young team and a short year. If they do it again, I'll be convinced"...
Then they win 66 games the next year, went on that 27-game winning streak, and probably saw the absolute pinnacle of Lebron's greatness, in retrospect. And I hated it, and I rooted against him the entire time. Then the playoffs happened, and this was when my views began to shift...
Watching him overcome a Pacers team that was a contender, and watching his performance in the 2013 Finals, is what made me a fan. I ran out of excuses to dislike him. Ray Allen saved him? Yeah okay, that Heat team isn't in that game without Lebron. I spent 3 years finding ways to dislike him. And from that point forward, I had to acknowledge, probably earlier than most but later than some, that I was privileged enough to be watching one of the greatest players in basketball history. And since that point, 2013 ECF onwards, he's only validated that I had no reason to dislike him anyway, because there's no reason to dislike him off the floor...
Also, I've mentioned this before and I'll do it again. For some reason, people were and have been slow to embrace Lebron as great. Unlike past greats, we can name every single one of them, we accepted as greats in their prime. And yet, a player coming out of high school as NBA-ready as Lebron is literally, unprecedented. It's never been done--nobody jumps from high school to The League that good. A player taking four different head coaches to The Finals is unprecedented. So many other levels one can go, so what are people disliking him for?
Because he challenges the idea of what a GOAT is supposed to be. At the end of the day, he has had a different career arc than every other GOAT we bring up--no exceptions. We kill him in the moment and we'll crush him if he loses to the Warriors this year, but his career will be remembered much differently and more appreciatively when he steps away. And not that everyone will all of a sudden say "#1 GOAT!", but he is absolutely redefining what a GOAT should be and is. And for too many people, it's an uncomfortable topic, and that's the crux of the Lebron dislike. The championships mean a ton and will be weighted better once he retires, but there are so many other criteria into what a great player looks like...
The only argument people really have is his many losses in The Finals and fewer rings than other guys. It's the only thing people can really hang their hate on. And if he starts declining soon, hell he's 14 years in, many other greats didn't even hold up this long, mentally or physically. He's the rarest of breeds. Most of the people who don't like him is unfounded, but to each his own...
Everybody knows im a Kobe guy !! Ive always loved the players that we're big time scorers so the early 2000s was a golden era to me far.Kobe,Tmac,Iverson,Marbury,
I believe the 2001 All star game was the best ever, It was a offense and defense from start to finish.But anyway when Lebron came into the league,Kobe and Shaq was still dominating the game and in 2004 it all came crashing down when my Lakers lost to Detroit and Shaq was traded to Miami !! I know in my heart that Kobe and Shaq should've beat Detroit but it was just too many distractions going on that eventually it was gonna happen sooner or later...
So fast forward to 05 & 06 and Shaq is now partners with D wade,Im still hurt over the lost to Detroit so im even rooting for Shaq & Wade to beat the Pistons !!
But the main problem to me was that Dwade went hard when he played against the Lakers. I remember it like yesterday where the big story was Shaq vs Kobe but Dwade was actually the one going at Kobe hard.So before there was ever a Kobe vs Lebron rival,it was Dwade vs Kobe and Dwade playing with Shaq just made it even more personal.Keep in mind Lebron was still in the league but he was more under the radar until 2007 rolled around !! Kobe just couldn't carry his weak Lakers team past the Phoenix suns so when we're knocked out the playoffs i began rooting for Lebron James.Plus i still hated those Detroit Pistons lol. I knew in order for Lebron to make the finals he had to beat Detroit.And the performance he put on against Detroit in the 07 ECF made him my second favorite player behind Kobe of course. He beat the big bad Pistons and gave me the satisfaction i was looking for since 2004.So from 07 -10 im rooting for Kobe and Lebron to win a chip.This is when the Nba really started pushing for a Kobe vs Lebron finals match up.I remember Kobe put up 61 vs the Knicks and days later Lebron put up 52 vs the Knicks
Im like okay Lebron trying to show he's on Kobe level !!
There were games where Lebron would put on a show vs the Lakers and even beat us a few times and im like okay Kobe watch out lol
So i believe it's the 08 or 09 season where the Cavs are on a 21 game win streak and the Lakers are in town.Kobe said he was under the weather but still suited up to play.I knew the Cavs we're gonna win because they was undefeated at home and plus they was on a massive win streak.Boy was i wrong.Kobe scored like 21 points but the way he took over in the 4th was what i remember the most.Lakers beat the Cavs in Cleveland and broke that 20 game win streak.I knew from that day forward that Kobe and Lebron was gonna meet in the finals that year.
The 2009 season was big for me !! Lakers had lost in the finals to Boston and Lebron was making a name for himself as the next best player to Kobe.So Kobe and the Lakers started that 09 season out for blood !! We won like 65 or 66 games that year and im like Kobe is ready to prove he can win a ring without Shaq. Fast forward to the playoffs and KG from Boston is injured.Im like damn i don't want the Lakers to beat the Celtics without Garnett because it wouldn't be fair.But anyway i told myself this is where Lebron can battle Kobe so it's cool.
Lebron and the Cavs ended up losing to the Orlando Magic that year and ruined any type of match up vs Kobe in the finals.I knew Kobe was gonna smash Orlando and he did but it still didn't feel like victory until we defeated Boston.
2010 rolls around and Lebron and the Cavs win like 60 or so games so im like maybe it's the Cavs year.Garnett was back and i knew it was gonna be Lakers vs Celtics part 2
The way Lebron played against the Celtics it was like he gave up and i remember my cousin telling me Lebron doesn't want to play in Cleveland anymore.I didn't know what he meant until the Summer of 2010 and the Decision came about.I was so hurt that Lebron left the Cavs because it was his home state.It was like he sold out to go chase titles with Dwade and Bosh.
So for me,ever since he started teaming up with other Superstars i stopped liking Lebron.It was like cheating to win or him being desperate for a title.I looked at Lebron as the one to carry the throne after Kobe but all that forming Big 3 SuperTeams just killed it for me.He's still a top 10 great but never can he be the greatest.
He had so much potential to be the best ever because he was a bigger and stronger player than Jordan & Kobe but his team up mentality is what ruined his legacy.
Same thing for KD,He wins a ring in Golden State but it won't hold as much weight if he won it in Okc.
Lebron won a ring in Cleveland but he basically hand-picked his entire team so it don't hold as much weight if he would've just stayed in Cleveland and done it the right way.It ain't like his team was weak,Cavs had multiple 60 win seasons. I just think he panicked in 2010 and was afraid of being like Karl Malone so he took the easy way out.
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