Royal Patent Grants in Kau - significant or not? (insurance, brokers)

[daijoubu]

I am in escrow for purchase of a lot in HOVE (Ocean View Estates), and the preliminary title report contains an unusual finding. "Rights of native tenants - Royal patent grant no. 2791". I am totally unfamiliar with these old grants which date from the Hawaiian monarchy period in the 19th century. Do they carry any weight anymore? Can some descendant of a patent holder come and claim possession or access to my land? Did Abel Lui of the Kawa beach camp try to use one of these to gain possession of the land from the state?
Mahalo for any info on this issue.

[Dreaming of Hawaii]

I doubt they carry any weight. If Abel had one of those grants, it didn't do him any good because he lost his claim to the land.

I suggest that you call the HOVE Community Association, 808-929-9910, and talk with their President. I can't remember his name, but he has been around for a while and has been helpful in the past. Also, my realtor friend Robyn Baglow, with The Land Office may also be able to give you an answer.

[OpenD]

I'm not a real lawyer, I only play one in dramas, but I would say that yes, it does give native Hawaiians access to this property for certain purposes, such as gathering materials to make a traditional house with...

In contrast with Western principals of private property rights, fee simple title to property in Hawaii confers only a “limited property interest.”

It does not include the right to universally exclude others from the owner’s property.

http://www.coastalhawaii.com/PDF%20F...E%20RIGHTS.pdf

[OpenD]

Originally Posted by Dreaming of Hawaii

I doubt they carry any weight. If Abel had one of those grants, it didn't do him any good because he lost his claim to the land.

Having access to land under these patents for traditional purposes doesn't mean you have a right to live on it. And the State Supreme Court ruled that Uncle Abel did not have the right to live on that land... now owned by the County... and that he could be evicted from it.

Here's some reading on that case: Kaohi: Uncle Abel Simeone Lui has lived at Kawaa, on the Ka'u Coast. - Maoliworld

[CyberCity]

Here is more than you probably want to know about land titles in Hawaii. Of course, when it comes to legal matters, it is best to consult a knowledgeable attorney, and not trust your investment dollars to information off the internet.

Good luck. Let us know what you learn.

[Robin Rossi]

Originally Posted by OpenD

I'm not a real lawyer, I only play one in dramas, but I would say that yes, it does give native Hawaiians access to this property for certain purposes, such as gathering materials to make a traditional house with...

I'm not a lawyer either, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn once.......

[KaraBenNemsi]

Be careful with anything what's called 'broken title'! Even if nothing happens while you live there, it may come back to haunt you when you will resell, i.e. the banks may not want to lend to your prospective buyer. Talk to a title insurance agency about any property before you sign. Not only to the brokers and owners.

[hotzcatz]

Okay, I'm not an attorney or even watch them on TV, but as far as I know, all land titles in Hawaii, with the exception of the land grants issued by the kingdom of Hawaii (if they are still in effect) are broken titles. Title insurance only insures the title from the time of statehood, which wasn't that long ago.

Land grants are still in use for certain purposes although not always for land ownership.

Haven't there been a few cases on Maui where they did get the ancestral lands back through the land grants? Far as I've heard, the Hawaiian ownership of land went to the family and if the person in the family who has the ability to sell the land could only sell it for the amount of time they had control of the land - which was for their lifetime. When they died, the land should have reverted back to the family it belonged to. From what I've heard, that's what the translation of the old land grants says but I can't interpret it myself.

[terracore]

This topic is fascinating. Please tell us what you find out.

[Fredesch]

What traditional things are folks going to collect in HOVE? Pele does not like folks taking rocks.