Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
See, this is why I love this forum. Even though you're often more, um, blunt than I would ever be, I like your posts, because you offer a non-rose-colored-glasses realism that is often lacking on here -- and it's based on actual experience. I admit, though, that I sometimes wonder what appeals to you about Hawaii. You warn people about the downside, but only occasionally praise the upside. You must like Hawaii, or you wouldn't stay.
Here is the thing Honuman - I offer my perspective on things which may seem brutal or not "nice" as quite frankly - very few do.
Whether anyone is in agreement or not, I feel I have a unique perspective - I've hired over a 100 people in Hawaii - many from the mainland - some single, some with a significant other - and others with a full blown family. I've also done over 70 exit interviews - most of whom were originally from the mainland. The best (but rare) case scenario - is the person who tried it -glad they tried it - didn't go broke - and went back. That happens so rarely. I don't know what sample size one needs - but over 50 people seems like a decent sample - and these aren't people making min wage - they are making over $80K a year. The bulk who leave aren't terribly happy they made the move - they set their career back - spent the bulk of their savings - didn't get to do the things they wanted to do - has an idealistic view of Hawaii that wasn't realistic - and it just didn't go well. The last group - rare like the first group, but about the first group percentage - leave very bitter - they blew all the savings - would be homeless if not for family on the mainland - have to start over - they are in a world of hurt - no savings - no job prospects on the mainland - live with mom/dad. Note: none of the above applies to people moving here for retirement - that is an entirely different group - but I will say this - we have an incredible number of retirees who push these people who post here hard to move here - I think it is often more destructive than not.
Easily 9+ out of 10 go back within 2 years. It is so easy to read these threads to see who'll have a shot and who won't - Maui-Intoxicated, sounds well planned - Trixie, absolutely not - this thread is so far out of control and a runaway train.
Lastly, I love Hawaii - heck, I get to travel for free around the world - I go boating, hiking, belong to a country club and golf - I get to enjoy activities 365 days a year - and I can afford it and for that I make no apologies either - on the flip side, unlike some other posters, I don't need 20 paragraphs to pretend to be "nice" to people I've never met with ridiculous tales.
Here is the thing Honuman - I offer my perspective on things which may seem brutal or not "nice" as quite frankly - very few do.
Whether anyone is in agreement or not, I feel I have a unique perspective - I've hired over a 100 people in Hawaii - many from the mainland - some single, some with a significant other - and others with a full blown family. I've also done over 70 exit interviews - most of whom were originally from the mainland. The best (but rare) case scenario - is the person who tried it -glad they tried it - didn't go broke - and went back. That happens so rarely. I don't know what sample size one needs - but over 50 people seems like a decent sample - and these aren't people making min wage - they are making over $80K a year. The bulk who leave aren't terribly happy they made the move - they set their career back - spent the bulk of their savings - didn't get to do the things they wanted to do - has an idealistic view of Hawaii that wasn't realistic - and it just didn't go well. The last group - rare like the first group, but about the first group percentage - leave very bitter - they blew all the savings - would be homeless if not for family on the mainland - have to start over - they are in a world of hurt - no savings - no job prospects on the mainland - live with mom/dad. Note: none of the above applies to people moving here for retirement - that is an entirely different group - but I will say this - we have an incredible number of retirees who push these people who post here hard to move here - I think it is often more destructive than not.
Easily 9+ out of 10 go back within 2 years. It is so easy to read these threads to see who'll have a shot and who won't - Maui-Intoxicated, sounds well planned - Trixie, absolutely not - this thread is so far out of control and a runaway train.
Lastly, I love Hawaii - heck, I get to travel for free around the world - I go boating, hiking, belong to a country club and golf - I get to enjoy activities 365 days a year - and I can afford it and for that I make no apologies either - on the flip side, unlike some other posters, I don't need 20 paragraphs to pretend to be "nice" to people I've never met with ridiculous tales.
Your honesty, insight and ability to cut through the Feigned Sincerity is refreshing, appreciated and gratefully-acknowledged.
Last edited by Robin Rossi; 06-14-2013 at 11:29 PM..
People visit Alaska in summer or hear about the free oil money everybody gets in October, get all excited, move, go broke. Very few take the time to learn affordable decent housing does not exist, there is no public transportation outside Anchorage or reliable utilities beyond city centers. I can understand being "Brutal" to save someone from packing up & freezing to death by December n Alaska but why all the harshness here telling "Dreamers" they are going to fail before they even visit?
Sure be a pal and tell them the truth, advise about locations, economy, education. Then let them make their choices without labeling them failures before ever visiting. Good God man anyone over 35 knows reality is never better than fantasy. If they still come after playing out their tropical dreams on line, they will not starve, they will not freeze, they go away sad, maybe poor, probably will, why do you care so much? Relax.
Spoiler: Everyone dies. Enjoy the ride.
Last edited by KimberlyReutov; 06-15-2013 at 01:04 AM..
Reason: Because I Can
they are making over $80K a year. The bulk who leave aren't terribly happy they made the move - they set their career back - spent the bulk of their savings - didn't get to do the things they wanted to do - has an idealistic view of Hawaii that wasn't realistic - and it just didn't go well. The last group - rare like the first group, but about the first group percentage - leave very bitter - they blew all the savings - would be homeless if not for family on the mainland - have to start over - they are in a world of hurt - no savings - no job prospects on the mainland - live with mom/dad.
In my opinion, you're dealing with a strange subset of people who have no clue how to budget and live on 80K/year, that they go broke and blow their savings on top of that.
I'm not saying you aren't seeing exactly that happening though. There does seem to be a strong sense of 'entitlement' among the younger mainlander American generations that they believe they can all live like Kings and such. New cars, new toys, private schools, nice neighborhoods, etc.
But, being a person who isn't like that at all, and as a person supporting a wife and kids on a much smaller salary than that, and as one who has a very rich life living well within my means, it just annoys me that those types of Americans seem too plentiful. If I had to see/deal with that type of American all day everyday, I'd be pretty annoyed by it just as much, if not more, than you already seem to be.
In my opinion, you're dealing with a strange subset of people who have no clue how to budget and live on 80K/year, that they go broke and blow their savings on top of that.
$80K isn't a lot - when a couple prior to moving to Hawaii made $200K and lived that lifestyle. The 80K person may have made 130K on the mainland and the other 70K - now you have a 80K person and maybe a 40K person.
By your standards - you may think - wow, that is wonderful - what the heck is the problem.
Here is what happens before the move
I wanted to move for a simpler life
I got tired of winter - I can't stand cold
I want to downsize - get rid of clutter
I'm going to go to the farmers market every week
I'll be happy in my 750 sq ft place - even though I just came from 1,500 sq ft
I won't be mad about my reduced salary - it'll be worth it
I really need to do this - NOW!
I can just move back - I just need to try
I'll get visitors - I live in Hawaii!
Aloha time - I won't need to work as hard in Hawaii
I won't mind living in Ewa - I deal with the same traffic in Seattle
etc, etc, etc....
Here is what happens after a year or two
I wanted to move for a simpler life - uh, well.....I never really tried that on the mainland, maybe that wasn't such a hot idea
I got tired of winter - I can't stand cold - darn, I miss Lake Tahoe in the winter
I want to downsize - get rid of clutter - wow, this place is super small
I'm going to go to the farmers market every week - that was cool the first month or two
I'll be happy in my 750 sq ft place - even though I just came from 1,500 sq ft - I'm not really digging working all day and coming back to my tiny place
I won't be mad about my reduced salary - it'll be worth it - I really really really hate that and I'm super mad!!
I really need to do this - NOW! I guess I really didn't
I can just move back - I just need to try - uh, I'm broke - mom, dad - help!!!
I'll get visitors - I live in Hawaii! I didn't - in fact, weddings - birthdays, special events make me even broker
Aloha time - I won't need to work as hard in Hawaii - breaking news - work as hard - just less pay
I won't mind living in Ewa - I deal with the same traffic in Seattle - seriously, 12 miles and a 90 minute commute....what the??????
You know something - I think this thread came down to the $500 most informative poster contest with some of the responses - and congrats to oregonwoodsmoke who "smoked" them all.
The circle island tour in a previous post - really? For someone who has never been in Hawaii. Really?
Here is what happens before the move
I wanted to move for a simpler life - oh oh oh - yes, this is the place, congrats
I got tired of winter - I can't stand cold - I hate that also, we have 333 of 340 climates in the BI
I want to downsize - get rid of clutter - you came to the right place -
I'm going to go to the farmers market every week - yum, veggies - let me tell you about a bunch of stuff you've never heard of
I'll be happy in my 750 sq ft place - even though I just came from 1,500 sq ft - you will like your tiny place
I won't be mad about my reduced salary - it'll be worth it - you make more than the average person in Hawaii
I really need to do this - NOW! YES!!!! you do!!!!!
I can just move back - I just need to try - you can always try again!!!!
I'll get visitors - I live in Hawaii! no comment!!
Aloha time - I won't need to work as hard in Hawaii no comment
I won't mind living in Ewa - I deal with the same traffic in Seattle Big Island!!!!!!!
etc, etc, etc....
Last edited by whtviper1; 06-15-2013 at 02:00 AM..
Maybe a good start Viper in making a difference plus getting yourself a bonus is alert your employer to the need of offering lifestyle/budget council to new hires. Advice on where to shop, moderate housing, skipping the country clubs, expensive purchases for a couple years. Military does credit workshops to help with living within means, your company could to.
Someone here posted Trixie a link of median household incomes. Those numbers are misleading. How about a heads up to anyone thinking since they make $80,000 they can splurge cause they make a third more than the average? Everyone has different priorities. Maybe the family making $55,000 does not buy brands or fancy take out. Those items add up. An extra $1,000 a month in a lease is $12,000 a year. Budget blown right there when you add extra utilities.
Another quick point. What if a poster is feigning kindness or fibbing on their credentials or whatever else. Great conversations with useful information is being shared. Good intentions can bring about inspiration, motivation, which is great. Do not worry about who is or is not who they claim. Some people have a desire to help who might believe they need a degree or status to give a compliments, encouragement or opinion. Unless you know there is a person trying to scam or harm another let it go
That is an awesome clip Viper. But like Tommy, in the end, he does care. And by the emotion of your posts you too are invested in the stories you are told. Admit you care. You really do.
Unless you know there is a person trying to scam or harm another let it go
YES, That is the point - you are completely getting scammed by the original poster - you just have to read the initial posts. It really is obvious - I guess I've seen more of these than you - but, yes - scam over the top if you go back to the first posts.
I wanted to move for a simpler life - uh, well.....I never really tried that on the mainland, maybe that wasn't such a hot idea...
I know a couple who did almost everything you listed. Last year they asked me advice on moving to Hawaii. To sum up a very long conversation, I advised that they wait a few years and spend that time living like they would in Hawaii. Smaller place, very little stuff, tight budget, working two jobs etc... All the things that they said they were willing to do in Hawaii. I then suggested that they take all the money they saved during this time and use it to pay off debt, build up a good savings account, as well as put enough aside in a separate account to be able to come home and get re-established if things didn't work out.
They did NONE of this. They moved to Hawaii within 30 days of our conversation.
Guess where they are now.
Back home living with her grandparents, broke and in HUGE debt!
One more thing to add. This doesn't just happen in Hawaii. I had a friend from high school do almost the exact same thing when he just had to move his family to live in one of the more expensive resort areas in Oregon. He saw that we were living here but refused to listen to how we got here. They had to leave, broke and in debt, in less than a year.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
