How realistic is our plan to relocate - feel free to be brutally honest! (homes, calculation)

[Trixie4]

Thanks Cybercity,

I have been looking into the archives in regards to older teens and socialization issues. My kids are very independent by nature and have stressed that they have plenty of friends already that they interact with and see on visits. They are both as strong willed as their Mom and insist the access to hiking, surfing and paddle boarding will be plenty enough for them. Thanks for the advice!

[KauaiHiker]

So many sub-topics on this thread. This one is essentially about the dynamics of forums, a bottomless topic in itself.

Originally Posted by Robin Rossi

So many of the people presenting these "plans" seem to 100% or nearly 100% phony, pretentious, or in some other manner, less than real. Like they are wanting to call attention to themselves, to validate themselves, to give their lives and themselves some sort of meaning that is just so outside of normative.

You know, the same could be said for the regulars on this forum. Even though you (Robin Rossi) and whtviper1 bring some very astute observations, it could also be said you are here validate yourselves and your choices as well. And I could say that of myself as well. Nor does validating oneself make them wrong or unworthy of attention, help, and polite conversation.

Also, I think you're failing to see the individuality of every poster. Yes, there are a lot of dreamers out there in various states of sanity and actual ability of moving to HI, but they are not less than real even if they fit some stereotype of yours. I still think we should treat them politely and point out when they or a regular is going out of line.

Originally Posted by Tiger Beer

Speaking of which, a new troll just hit the 'general 'Hawaii' forum, the 'Am I tripping...?' poster. Brand new poster, safe assumption that's your Maui Troll at work again? Definitely doesn't appear to be a legitimate post.

I want to quote Hamlet here, though it's a bit overused: “There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.” Not every crazy post is a troll, there are some genuinely eccentric people out there with poor grammar and communication skills. There are also stoned and drunk people posting. And then there are trolls immitating all of those just to get a rise out of us. But the post you mention is one I just decided to skip (couldn't make sense of it and won't be replying to).

[PaliPatty]

Originally Posted by Trixie4

Thanks Cybercity,

I have been looking into the archives in regards to older teens and socialization issues. My kids are very independent by nature and have stressed that they have plenty of friends already that they interact with and see on visits. They are both as strong willed as their Mom and insist the access to hiking, surfing and paddle boarding will be plenty enough for them. Thanks for the advice!

Just an opinion but there seems to be a somewhat casual (and definitely defensive) "shrugging off" of the needs of teenagers to have friends with whom they can pal around in real life, on a regular basis. At least one good friend.
Didn't we all have at least one truly great friend when we were growing up? Someone we could hang out with, be silly with, talk to when things got rough?
Rather odd, to me, that kids would declare that they have "plenty of friends already," as if they've gone ahead and accepted that they're simply not going to have any if they move here. I will go ahead and assume that, when you use the word "interact," you're referring to internet interaction. I realize that online interaction is a big part of socialization these days but it is a poor poor substitute for face time. What I see with my very social teenage grandkids is that online time is an adjunct to real-life interaction, not a substitute for it.
And how often do you think any of their friends are going to visit from the mainland? Once the novelty wears off (and it will), any visits will dwindle to an eventual nil. It's expensive to come here, remember.
Don't underestimate the need to develop friendships here. Surfing? Are they aware of the territorial nature of the surf culture here? Mainland kids who move here with the attitude that they don't need local friends might be seen as arrogant and needing to be taught a lesson. Especially at surf spots.
"Strong-willed" and "independent" notwithstanding, kids need a peer support system. You may think of yourself as a minimalist but don't minimize the importance of friends where kids are concerned, especially here.
Okay---here's a constructive suggestion.
If you do move here, have the kids join a paddling club (canoe, not SUP). It will give them a chance to interact with other kids in a healthy "Island" way.
One more thing---have you or your kids actually visited Hawaii? I believe several others have asked that question. I may have missed your answer---if so, kala mai.
Now, back to my coffee on this cool cloudy morning.

[KauaiHiker]

Originally Posted by whtviper1

The next ah ha moment will be the realization of a bored housewife dreaming away - doesn't it seem odd the breadwinner in the family doesn't take the lead on something so life changing.....

Now you're just provoking the OP in your own trollish way. Yes, there are bored housewives dreaming away on this forum, you are correct. There are also housewives doing vital research for their family's future. No need to bring up jabs about breadwinners and who should be doing research--you know that is irrelevant.

Originally Posted by whtviper1

I just happened to see it in post 1 and the real clue was the defensiveness which always happens 100% of the time of with the dreamers when you dig a little deeper. Always.

You do like to prod these "dreamers," maybe it's a way, even unconscious, of testing them and seeing their reactions (which is also what trolls do). But I agree with the OP that it is unpleasant and doesn't contribute to an enjoyable discussion. Couldn't you let the dreamers be, ask them relevant questions or give them data points without confronting their fears and insecurities?

Originally Posted by whtviper1

I'll give you a concrete example of why I do this - the $10K in savings threads...

This is not one of them. Anyone with a viable income (100K) who has been asking about relocating to several location including HI is indistinguishable from a good troll. There ARE dreamers out there, whether they have 10K or 100K. Why don't you help them see reality instead of jumping in and attacking their dreams and their motivations. Also, just because you label this OP a dreamer and can get a rise out of her with your comments that show her feistiness and some insecurities, doesn't mean she wouldn't make a great neighbor in Hawaii.

Originally Posted by whtviper1

I try to point these things out so over the long term so the forum can get educated to be a better place and focus on the legitimate threads - I'm really surprised so many people get sucked in to such an obvious situation that will never happen... The dreamer threads in my opinion are toxic, they skew reality and don't help anyone.

But if we didn't have both true dreamer (10K) and dreamer with potential (100K) threads, what would we talk about here? Both of these types of threads help us all hone our message, weed out the the ones who will just waste our time, and help those who could make it in Hawaii.

[CyberCity]

Originally Posted by PaliPatty

Don't underestimate the need to develop friendships here..... Mainland kids who move here with the attitude that they don't need local friends might be seen as arrogant and needing to be taught a lesson...

PaliPatty, your entire posting had realistic points, and your comments about friends and fitting in, and potential negative repercussions, is valid. [Your directness is more "cut to the chase" than I was... but we are on the same track about needing to really consider the social implications for a newly-arrived-and-to-be-home-schooled child.]

[whtviper1]

I'll have to agree to disagree with you Kauihiker - if we as a group would call out more of these fake threads (fine, you call them dreamers) when it is so obvious they aren't moving here I think the forum would be a better place allowing us to spend time on legitimate posters. Wouldn't this be a much more informative forum if we addressed people who are actually moving to Hawaii or at least serious about it?

[KauaiHiker]

Originally Posted by CyberCity

The topic of your children's education and adaptation to Hawaii should not be underestimated. For older children, especially teens, Hawaii is very unique due to the mix of cultures, acceptance, "fitting in", etc., at least in a way that offers daily happiness. For a fresh start on advice, if I were you, I'd do a large amount of searching through the archives about education in Hawaii and home-schooling and social interaction, and then post a new thread about that topic.

I'm glad CyberCity came back to this topic, because I didn't get back to it in all my previous replies. Let me start by saying that we don't pretend to know what's best for you and your kids, but we do see how kids interact and live in HI.

Originally Posted by Trixie4

My kids are very independent by nature and have stressed that they have plenty of friends already that they interact with and see on visits. They are both as strong willed as their Mom and insist the access to hiking, surfing and paddle boarding will be plenty enough for them. Thanks for the advice!

EDIT: I see PaliPatty said pretty much the same thing already while I was writing. So I agree with her.

Seeing friends on visits and having few chances to interact with local kids seems very limiting. First off, you will have a small house, so no place to host friends and family. Second, even good friends visit less and less. We had some friends visit us once (and we do have a large house and gave them their own suite), then they hosted us in CA, and that was it. They're still friends, but maintaining long distance friendships is hard, they want to do other stuff on their limited vacation than come to the same island every time. Our kids are still pen-pals, but relying on infrequent and uncertain visits is no satisfaction for a kid who wants to get outside today with someone he/she knows. Maybe your kids will fall in with the neighborhood kids, but that presupposes a house-search almost as difficult as when looking for a house in a good school district.

Second, your kids will have plenty to do (though you'll be driving them around), but no place or time to hang out and be kids. My daughter is homeschooled as well, but we had her in a study group with other homeschoolers twice a week. Over the summer, she is signed up for tons of day camps, and by the second day, she already made a new friend. I don't think that would happen when Mom drops the kids off at the beach for an hour of surfing twice a week. It's not that structured kid activities won't be available to you, it's that you seem to dismiss them ahead of time and if you (or they) change your mind, you will have limited budget to enable them.

Originally Posted by Trixie4

To the posters who raised concern over grade level testing - my 16 year old twins tested out of 12th grade with flying colors four years ago. That's right, 12 year old kids that have never seen a day in American school tested four years ahead of their peers. My kids are pretty bright but this is not an unusual occurrence for unschooled kids - they tend to tear through subjects like science and math early on and with very little prodding. I never said they didn't have access to Algebra and Trig textbooks and even a math tutor at different times over the years - unschooling is simply that, no set study times, no set subjects and no set sleep schedule - but when they choose to dive in to a given subject I make sure they have everything needed to succeed.

It's not that your kids aren't smart or haven't studied enough, it's that the HI school system has quirks and unknown unknowns that you'll have to deal with. My kid is still in elementary school, I have no idea about homeschooling at middle and high school level (yet). What if they call you in and insist on taking some standardized tests? Wouldn't you want to know what format the tests are and what topics they cover, just so your kids know how to answer? Unfortunately, tests have a way of testing your kids' test-taking abilities, not so much their actual knowledge. These (and other) problems are not insurmoutable, but don't dismiss them because you may very well have to deal with them.

[KauaiHiker]

Originally Posted by whtviper1

I'll have to agree to disagree with you Kauihiker - if we as a group would call out more of these fake threads (fine, you call them dreamers) when it is so obvious they aren't moving here I think the forum would be a better place allowing us to spend time on legitimate posters. Wouldn't this be a much more informative forum if we addressed people who are actually moving to Hawaii or at least serious about it?

Everybody who is serious and capable of moving to HI was at some point in the same shoes as the OP: started thinking about life changes, looks at several new locations, gets information, uses web forums to ask questions. Yeah, it's a bit of an extra effort when they're opinionated and challenge the responses they get, but that's only human.

[Robin Rossi]

Originally Posted by PaliPatty

Just an opinion but there seems to be a somewhat casual (and definitely defensive) "shrugging off" of the needs of teenagers to have friends with whom they can pal around in real life, on a regular basis. At least one good friend.
Didn't we all have at least one truly great friend when we were growing up? Someone we could hang out with, be silly with, talk to when things got rough?
Rather odd, to me, that kids would declare that they have "plenty of friends already," as if they've gone ahead and accepted that they're simply not going to have any if they move here. I will go ahead and assume that, when you use the word "interact," you're referring to internet interaction. I realize that online interaction is a big part of socialization these days but it is a poor poor substitute for face time. What I see with my very social teenage grandkids is that online time is an adjunct to real-life interaction, not a substitute for it.
And how often do you think any of their friends are going to visit from the mainland? Once the novelty wears off (and it will), any visits will dwindle to an eventual nil. It's expensive to come here, remember.
Don't underestimate the need to develop friendships here. Surfing? Are they aware of the territorial nature of the surf culture here? Mainland kids who move here with the attitude that they don't need local friends might be seen as arrogant and needing to be taught a lesson. Especially at surf spots.
"Strong-willed" and "independent" notwithstanding, kids need a peer support system. You may think of yourself as a minimalist but don't minimize the importance of friends where kids are concerned, especially here.
Okay---here's a constructive suggestion.
If you do move here, have the kids join a paddling club (canoe, not SUP). It will give them a chance to interact with other kids in a healthy "Island" way.
One more thing---have you or your kids actually visited Hawaii? I believe several others have asked that question. I may have missed your answer---if so, kala mai.
Now, back to my coffee on this cool cloudy morning.

Paddling Club - brilliant. Anything to reconnect them with their peers.

[OpenD]

Originally Posted by PaliPatty

If you do move here, have the kids join a paddling club (canoe, not SUP). It will give them a chance to interact with other kids in a healthy "Island" way.

Paddling Club - brilliant. Anything to reconnect them with their peers.